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+--- Thread: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals (/showthread.php?tid=14710)
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - The Legendary Joe - 06-04-2010
Well. no guild is perfect. some guilds change leaders so often it's hard to tell who's the real one (mainly woe guilds). Way back when I joined heRO, LW's leadership was great, back when Mr. Moneybags lived in alde town and had seraph as an Alt guild. Might not have been the smartest man out there, but he dd sorta motivate me a little.
I'm not sure about behe's leadership, I wasn't in their guild very long, and my disgust with voice chats really limited that chance to find out. that was 2 years ago and it has probably changed a little bit. I do hear they're quite strict, and atm, it's one of the, if not, THE oldest woe guilds still completely active. I'd label that as successful. Having trouble remembering wether they came first or bamboo.
I didn't really care much for Death Dealers guild leader. Too non-chalant and didn't really care about much. Invited a few characters that clashed quite a bit with existing members and Officers, and didn't really care. Otherwise, halfway decent.
Bamboo is like a fusion between a social and a woe guild. yet the leader's almost always AFK or offline. I haven't woe'd with them in a while, so I sorta forgot about how he led. But it's still a toss up on wether Bamboo and Behe are the actual oldest active woe guild on hero. Also a note- they've held Aldebaran castle for Quite a long time. though, not sure if I'd chalk that up to skill or not because in the old days, alde wasn't that hot a warzone.
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Aaronock - 06-04-2010
Oh I see Joe, no love for me.
I guess I'm not memorable enough for you.
Or you dont' want to hurt my feelings <3
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Antimind - 06-04-2010
I'm VERY impressed with Behe's leadership. Like I said I've only been here a short time and yes I'm a member of Behe. Coming from iRO and having been in and dealing with top-tier WoE guilds (and some social) there I can def say that Behe is one of the best if not THE best in terms of leadership. I can totally understand why Behe has been around for a while.
Something I've noticed here and on other servers is there does seem to be a rift between WoE and social guilds. I'd say it's mostly the smaller/newer social guilds that are most guilty. Ignorance on both parts is the reason for it. I was there once. New to a server (and RO), didn't want to WoE. I remember thinking that god items were something to be feared and that all WoE guilds were full of super egos. People just assume that EVERYONE is like that because of poor experiences with some. I've actually found certain WoE guilds on a few servers to be quite social when it isn't time for WoE. I'm not ignorant enough to say WoE or social guilds are better. Just that there's good and bad in both.
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Fruityla - 06-04-2010
I thought we weren't mentioning names here. Doesn't saying "x-guild's leader" count?
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Aaronock - 06-04-2010
You know what's half sad is most people probably on server now couldn't name who the leaders of DD, LW, and etc are. XD
God we're old :<
Anyway, I think that a lot of things contribute to a guild staying around. Let's not worship Behe here. People move on from RO to other things (usually for the bigger and better). I think most of the WoE guilds have had that happen over time, and even most social guilds from two years ago aren't around anymore. I think Dragon Empire and Bamboo Squad are some of the oldest active social guilds that haven't had break periods between them. Anyway I disgress.
Let's focus more on what you feel pitfalls can be for leaders on a general level or what have they done to do great.
For example, many guild leaders deal with the difficulty of conflict between their friends and other members. It can become touchy to have business involving friends. I know you guys say "well just kick the friend out," but its not that simple if you actually hang out with them in real life. You have to be very communicative that your friend is ticking you off because he's/she's aggrivating other members. I guess this can apply to online friends still, but it can be sucky to be in this position, and many people struggle with it.
Anyway new guilds popping up are excellent things, means a change of pace from having stagnation. A problem that I feel is common is now we're just reforming groups as leaders fall to the real life tide. Behemoth has just been fortunate not to suffer this kind of fate. Then again, maybe they just have more time than others have on the server.
What should new guilds do to really attract members to their guild? We have only 3 large WoE guilds, what could be done to make the scene more attractive? Social guilds are very common on heRO, how do you guys manage to get members to want to pick your guild over the other 50 bajillion others like yours?
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Amara - 06-04-2010
I'm perfectly fine with Behemoth being worshiped!??(not really...but I think its funny.)??As for how old Behemoth is...I took over late 2007 and have been leading since.??Bamboo was around before us.
* Can anyone you feel lead a guild?
Absolutely not.??Like everyone else has said, some people are suited for leading, some aren't.
* What kind of people should be leaders for a guild?
People who are strong willed, charismatic to a degree, willing to admit faults and change when needed, calm, assertive, not drawn into drama, and who are able to make tough disciplinary calls.??One single person doesn't need all these traits, but they need to be able to recognize them in others and assign them as secondary leadership within the guild.??For example, outside of guild I'm not the most outgoing person.??I don't go on main and chat with people often, and am not super open with everyone.??I know these are faults of mine, so I've got people like Azul and Guillermo to fill that role in Behe's leadership.
I think the main thing a guild leader needs is the self awareness to know when they are lacking in a quality needed for leadership as well as the willingness/humility to rely on others to help lead.??I know if I didn't have my secondary leaders, I would go insane and would have ditched Behemoth long ago.??Without that sort of support, any guild is going to have problems sticking around and being steady.
* Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.
Any group of people need a set of goals, or at least a common interest (which could be seen as a goal) to hold them together.
* What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?
Being a WoE guild just means that one of the goals of the guild is to involve themselves in WoE.??To me, it doesn't mean elitists or better players or better gear.??Its just a group that wants to fight in WoE, nothing more, nothing less.
* What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?
I don't think there's any such thing as a social guild.??Rather, every guild is social, therefore there's no ONLY social guild.??That label actually annoys me because it implies that WoE guilds aren't social, which is so very far from the truth.??WoE guilds are, of necessity, social as well.??People are on farming and leveling all the time in order to stay competitive.??Guilds that WoE also have one of the highest activity levels, in my opinion, so to reject WoE guilds from the social guild moniker is unfair.
* Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?
I'd say this depends on the person and what they want to get out of the game.??If a person wants to be a loner, and spend their time farming/leveling solo, no guild is needed.??If a person wants to be successful in WoE and hold a castle...you kinda need a guild for that.??I do think its easier to party, socialize, and enjoy yourself if you're part of a guild, but that's just a personal opinion.??I know when I'm on any of my unguilded characters, I tend to feel lonely.
* Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?
There are very few instances where a guild will make it through a successful leadership transfer and remain anything like it used to be.??We've all seen it happen:??old leader leaves, and generally the guild falls.??There are very rare cases, in my opinion, where this could work.??If the guild leader was very careful about choosing, grooming, and transitioning the new leader, its more likely to be a successful hand off.??I'm talking taking several months to train someone in, get them used to leading, and to get the guild used to following this new person.??If the guild leader takes the time to do this, no only with the new leader be more competent, but the guild members will be more confident that their old leader has taken the time to train someone and will be more willing to stay and follow the new leader.
Aaronock Wrote:A problem that I feel is common is now we're just reforming groups as leaders fall to the real life tide. Behemoth has just been fortunate not to suffer this kind of fate.
Its not good fortune. The reason Behemoth's been so steady is its strong secondary leaders. Its not that our leadership is more active than other guilds' leaders, overall, but that we have a very definite support structure of leaders so no one person gets burned out or is relied on too heavily. By having this network of leaders, we've planned for the inevitable absences that happen amongst people.
EDIT: combined posts
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Namine - 06-04-2010
If anything, this rift of "WoE" guilds and "Social" guilds is quite a heRO exclusive phenomenon. You don't see any other server or even iRO/kRO for people having identity crisis to define themselves as either one or the other. In fact when I first joined heRO, there is no such problems at all. There are guilds and... more guilds. There's no 'categories' for the types of guilds that you are beyond the language spoken in guild chat.
Rather, some certain individual tried to forge him/her/itself a name in the limelight within the server, and start coining that term everywhere he/she/it goes on Main and forum, claiming to be "number 1" starting threads and controversial topics one after another. That term just stuck to represent that particular guild, and any other guilds that serves a similar function but were formerly without a named category.
All in all, "social guild" as a term was a byproduct of a series of unfortunate events.
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Aaronock - 06-04-2010
Thanks Namine, that is a great point you have brought up.
A lot of servers though do deal with a rift of players that make up WoE guilds and those that make up Non-WoE ones.
There is definitely a certain contempt held by each side for different reasons
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Namine - 06-04-2010
Tons of servers got division between people who WoE and those who don't. But none of them got identity crisis of being one or the other, then dispel/exterminate the other side. Ironically, KoS orders were issued by "social" guilds far more often than the WoE-involved guilds.
heRO is a lot better now as time healed its wounds, but there was a time when the above statement was true. In terms of guild relationships, heRO is a lot better now than it was in the past.
RE: Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals - Aaronock - 06-04-2010
Yah, there is definitely less rifts between players than we have had in the past.
I'm hoping through these discussions some people become far more understanding of the many sides and things involved. I guess that's what all discussions strive for though haha.