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+--- Thread: Anti-bot Gravity map design (/showthread.php?tid=9912)
RE: Anti-bot Gravity map design - azurerogue - 05-15-2009
So these monsters, other than as an ant-bot measure, add a challenge to these previously "good" leveling spots.??As someone who enjoys exploring maps and hunting gear while you level I would think that you would also enjoy a challenge.??Seriously, my Professor (then sage) was my first character on this server and I dealt with Ridewords in CT just fine.??
If you take the annoying monsters out of maps, then there's no challenge anymore.??If you can 100% predict what you will encounter and have a 100% guarunteed success at dealing with it with the same reaction, things get boring faster (it's why I hate Moscovia 1 and often level my characters in the deeper maps).
Incidentally, this is also why I used to mob Mi Gaos (soloing them was too predictable) as a Sage, or why I (for a while, anyways) would VFW Anubises to death (yes, it works).??And, for the record, I haven't seen any Wizards at TI1, but I used to go there as a 9x Sage (exp was actually pretty decent).??So, I suppose, my point in summary is that I would actually like quite the opposite of what your original post asks for.??If anything I'd rather see more things of Rideword-ish challenge level (or scaled appropriately to approximate level) appear in the current leveling hotspots.
EDIT: In response to:
Quote:Those nuisances are fine for level 90 maps, put them in Thors and Rachels and Biolabs and Thanatos.
Those maps already have their own nuisances. Rachel has Hodremlins, Thors has guardians, Biolabs 1 has the Clones (which are hard for lower-levels), Biolabs 2 has the MVP and the 1(?) Eremes Guile, and Biolabs 3 has the 99s and the MVP. Notice how those nuisances are SIGNIFICANTLY harder to deal with than the ones you're complaining about? Most maps have something thrown in to add a challenge.
I mean, really, if I was going to complain about anything it would be about the 99 SinX in Bio3 and how he can perform any attack he has while remaining cloaked,
RE: Anti-bot Gravity map design - Aaronock - 05-15-2009
Quote:Sure, there are the skilled ones who can vertical fire wall anything and probably would find a way to vertical fire wall undeads if it was possible, but the majority aren't so skilled and shouldn't be limited to "Siroma or bust".
Hmm well siromas suck but if you aren't skilled its time to let yourself die tons to figure things out at places that are harder, or learn to find friends to party with. I find this statement absolutely ridiculous...mages won't be any damned good as trans if they don't learn how to deal with different challenges when solo leveling.
20-50 Maps. Muka, Wolves, Toy Factory 1, Metalings, even that Poison Spore map you claim is SO bad that's one more south of Wolves is fine.
RE: Anti-bot Gravity map design - azurerogue - 05-15-2009
Orc Lady map isn't really all that bad either for low levels, imo.
RE: Anti-bot Gravity map design - mahawirasd - 05-15-2009
orc lady is good even, were it not for the band of archers carried by the orc lord...
and the poison spore south of wolves is actually good also, but again there is that annoying dragon tail there
i would agree for heRO to add several ridewords, mimics, AND hunter flies to the moscovia map
-w-
RE: Anti-bot Gravity map design - Ellie - 05-15-2009
Not to mention low levels also still go to Culverts...
Ranged classes also sometimes do Mandragoras and the such, aswell.
RE:??Anti-bot Gravity map design - Little Sara - 05-15-2009
mahawirasd Wrote:orc lady is good even, were it not for the band of archers carried by the orc lord...
and the poison spore south of wolves is actually good also, but again there is that annoying dragon tail there
i would agree for heRO to add several ridewords, mimics, AND hunter flies to the moscovia map
-w-
Yeah I'm sure people won't mind if we add Ridewords and Hunter Flies to Mavka maps right? It adds to the challenge right?
/sarcasm
Am I one of the only ones who played pre iRO live (open Beta or earlier) who knew those maps (Geffen 1, CT2-3) before they were changed for the worst?
Cause sure, if someone starts playing when the changes have already been done, it's what they've *always known*. They'd think reverting to something before would be bad, because they never had it in the first place anyways.
Pretty sure people would complain if they added lv 70 aggros to Mavka map, because they're used to not having any there.
People are afraid of change I guess.
RE: Anti-bot Gravity map design - Frogboy - 05-15-2009
i've played open beta and i can say that i rather enjoy the fact they've changed the maps. granted i usually try to take the quick way out as i'm not real competitive in this game, but i play for the enjoyment of it.
because things have changed in those maps it forces people to change their strategy. think of it as something like PvP or WoE where you don't exactly know what's gonna be around the corner, but you gotta anticipate the worst (everybody knows what's in the emp room, but the pre emp room and before that). in this regard you run in to something you can't handle, you just run away and start over, trying to get back to your mob again that was nearly dead.
will that be frustrating for other players if they come across your half dead mobs? yea but it happens, but if like you said everyone is gathered around the good leveling maps, then there should be relatively low populace, if anyone at all, in the maps you're at, so those half dead mobs probably won't be killed.
i enjoy the challenge to this game, let's not change it. oh and besides, muka map has a hunter fly, and dragonfly in it (dragonfly is easy though). i'm just surprised they didn't put anything in wolves map, maybe a beetle king or something.
RE: Anti-bot Gravity map design - Ellie - 05-15-2009
Afraid of change?
Like you seem to be of the change of RO putting these aggros onto those maps?
Works both ways, Sara.
RE:??Anti-bot Gravity map design - Little Sara - 05-15-2009
Frogboy Wrote:i've played open beta and i can say that i rather enjoy the fact they've changed the maps. granted i usually try to take the quick way out as i'm not real competitive in this game, but i play for the enjoyment of it.
because things have changed in those maps it forces people to change their strategy. think of it as something like PvP or WoE where you don't exactly know what's gonna be around the corner, but you gotta anticipate the worst (everybody knows what's in the emp room, but the pre emp room and before that). in this regard you run in to something you can't handle, you just run away and start over, trying to get back to your mob again that was nearly dead.
will that be frustrating for other players if they come across your half dead mobs? yea but it happens, but if like you said everyone is gathered around the good leveling maps, then there should be relatively low populace, if anyone at all, in the maps you're at, so those half dead mobs probably won't be killed.
i enjoy the challenge to this game, let's not change it. oh and besides, muka map has a hunter fly, and dragonfly in it (dragonfly is easy though). i'm just surprised they didn't put anything in wolves map, maybe a beetle king or something.
It has a single 30 minute respawn Hunter Fly. Which I kill for lowbie's benefits whenever I see it.
Dragonfly is also unique and 30 minute respawn, and a 1st class character can kill it very easily (it has like 2000 HP and barely damages you at all even with 0 flee).
This used to be the "Mage Hode" map. It was full of non-aggro Hode and Anacondaq. Mukas were north-east of Morroc on their own map, which was full of them (west of Ant Hell entrance).
The cookie-cutter way of doing things on 1x rate iRO for a mage/wizard was Hode -> Argiope -> Clock Tower 2 or 3. And like now, it was Fire Bolt all the way, with Fire Wall later this never changed - it still is the most effective way of leveling.
I tried a Soul Strike build initially with my first mage. I had to delete it cause I wasn't able to fight anything past lv 30 without Fire Wall. I tried Lightning Bolt in Byalan as well. Same problem, if you didn't one-shot your target, you died.
A single Hunter Fly that is there "sometimes" is not a problem. Geffen 1 is something else, this is the spawn rate of Hunter Fly in Geffen 1:
- Geffen Dungeon F1
+ 30x / 30 sec~1 min
They're not immediate respawn, but between you and me, 1 minute is nothing.
In comparison there's 25 Poison Spores, much lower than what it used to be. It was at least 50-70 poison spores back then.
And the Farmiliar bats that used to be there are also gone. Not sure how many there were, but you saw a lot of them and they were there mainly to lower your flee or vit def apparently.
Bots to be "successful", had to be knights, or they died if they were lower by getting mobbed. I can say I died my fair share in this dungeon as a Thief.
I went to all kinds of map as Thief. Payon dungeon 1, many Payon fields, including what used to be Smokie map (what is now Spore/Willow map 1 right of Payon), Elder Willows in that same map (not the one below that, as is now). I went to Caramels in Mt Mjolnir, I think those didn't move or change. I went to Payon 3 and 4 later. And Pyramids 2 was the place to hunt for SS card back then (Payon 2 had smokie, eggyra, magnolia, the very occasional Soldier or Archer Skeleton, Munak or Bongun).
I alternated between those places to have a change of scenery, I had options. At 1x rate, even reaching job 40 1st class was a chore. And with the pre-Yuno SP formula, it was horrible for casters (not like SP items were easy to get).
I remember when rough elunium and rough oridecons were nearly card-ratio rares, that were worth 65k.
I like the feeling of low rates, of progressing slowly but surely, and of having to work for it, but having more maps opened to do that isn't a bad thing. What I didn't like about iRO, besides the p2p fee, was the crowdedness, it had 5000 people on at all times. You went on a map, it was full, another map, lots of people there too.
Now you go to Mavkas, the map is full. You go to CT2, the map is empty. If we balanced Geffen 1, CT2 and CT3 to make them go like pre-Amatsu, it would "uncrowd" Mavkas and Hill Winds a bit I think. Give more people room to breath, less kill-stealing, more variety in leveling.
The variety is what gave RO such a long lifespan (it is like 8 years old, 6-7 years old for iRO).
Ellie Wrote:Afraid of change?
Like you seem to be of the change of RO putting these aggros onto those maps?
Works both ways, Sara.
Well, what problem is there to acceding to my request? Why leave the status quo to what it is now?
I recognize that the change was stupid in that it doesn't even prevent bots (bots have cheats to avoid lotsa things, they could auto teleport every time they see a Rideword), which was the whole reason for the change.
I'm not afraid of having aggros on those maps, I recognize that it's very limiting for no good reason. I've balanced the pros and cons, and the cons outweight the pros. I've seen before the change, I've seen after the change, and it was better before.
I'm not afraid of change, I'm rational in wanting a change revoked when it's useless and even making things worst.
You prefer having people go to Mavka, Hill Wind, Siroma, Anubis, and only those maps? Make your argument as to why then.
RE: Anti-bot Gravity map design - azurerogue - 05-15-2009
Okay, let me just throw in a quick response. Sara, I think you should consider starting your own server. You seem to value your opinion over anyone else's and also assume that you are correctly devising the reasoning behind game changes. You also declare a pro/con evaluation made up entirely by you to be the "rational" backing for these choices.
This is what RO (eAthena - at least our SVN) is right now. Your means of fixing the current "status quo" is simply to return to an older version of it.