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+--- Thread: Lunakaligo > LBW (/showthread.php?tid=12141)
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Naruhodo - 11-04-2009
Snapplewee Wrote:Luna > Anything.
Learn to RO
Lulz.
By the way, I forgot to mention that I think Lunakalgo is ONLY better for MVPing and NOT for PvP, because only for MVPs does the card bonus increase by 25%. (AK cards)
For PvP, LBW is weaker than Lunakaligo by an even smaller margin, and Lunakaligo doesn't have the +1dex.
Thats because for PvP you use Hydras instead of AKs, which means the card bonus is 20% greater for Luna, not 25%.
The numbers I got comparing 2 Hydra'd +9LBW vs. 3 hydra'd +9Luna for Asura with the diabolos rings/incubus diabolous robe/morphshawl/variant/incubus Maidens Hat and typical asura build:
Double Bloody LBW: 143225 damage
Triple Bloody Lunakaligo: 143763 damage
Lunakaligo only does 538 more damage, and when you're doing that much damage in PvP 538 more means absolutely nothing.
That's why the +1dex +1int, and wide curse make LBW better for PvP Asura, even though Luna does a tiny bit more damage.
(And if you argue that the tiny bit more damage might count if the enemy has GR+Raydric, I did that math too:
2Bloody LBW: 35,807 damage
3Bloody Luna: 35,941 damage
means a 134 damage difference, which might make a difference if someone has tao gunka or something but I doubt it
)So for MVPing luna might be a bit better, but not good enough to justify another AK card imo, and for PvP I would argue that LBW is still better.
If I'm wrong feel free to prove me wrong
However, for stuff like Push Palm Strike, Investigation, Finger Offensive, etc. refined triple carded Luna is the way to go.
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Zaratus - 11-04-2009
Maybe simply your build suck balls.
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Naruhodo - 11-04-2009
xD Even in a build with 99 base str and int what I said would be true. The numbers for LBW and Lunakaligo would both be higher, but still really close.
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Zaratus - 11-04-2009
Refines don't count to asura damage. And your build sucks.
Edit: Okay, safe refines don't count in. And overrefines don't do such much difference to the damage.
Edit: Lich has 60 atk, Lunar has 110 atk. I don't know how you reach your atk values.
RE:??Lunakaligo > LBW - Naruhodo - 11-04-2009
Zaratus Wrote:Refines don't count to asura damage. And your build sucks.
Edit: Okay, safe refines don't count in. And overrefines don't do such much difference to the damage.
Edit: Lich has 60 atk, Lunar has 110 atk. I don't know how you reach your atk values.
You're hilarious, trolly
Weapon refine adds atk that *does* increase asura damage. All the RO calculators I tried back me up
Edit: Quoted from irowiki
Quote:When you successfully upgrade, you gain following effects:
????* Weapons
??????????o Weapon Lv. 1 - Every +1 upgrade gives +2 ATK (+3 ATK for every overupgrade).
??????????o Weapon Lv. 2 - Every +1 upgrade gives +3 ATK (+5 ATK for every overupgrade).
??????????o Weapon Lv. 3 - Every +1 upgrade gives +5 ATK (+7 ATK for every overupgrade).
??????????o Weapon Lv. 4 - Every +1 upgrade gives +7 ATK (+13(?) ATK for every overupgrade).
This is how I calculated their atk with the upgrades, and it seems to check out on the calculators
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Zaratus - 11-04-2009
They don't. Tried and proven ingame. Safe refines don't change shit. But why should I keep telling you stuff about asura, oh you pro champ.
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Naruhodo - 11-04-2009
K you're right about the safe refine thing, thanks for pointing that out. Now we've both been wrong about something
I can re-do my calculations if you want :3Edit: Does anyone know how much atk each unsafe refine adds for asura for level 4 and level 3 weapons? I can't be sure now that I know about the safe refines not adding atk.
Also, I'll have to re-do the calculations tomorrow... I have a test I need to study for now
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Zaratus - 11-04-2009
I don't care, I did mine.
And where was I wrong? I just edited to clarify the refine statement.
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Ultima_Pi - 11-04-2009
It's either the gears or build. Or the calculator. I didn't do it by hand, 'cause I'm sleepy.
I got a 30k damage difference between +0 Trip AK Luna and +9 Double AK Lich, favoring the former. Gears are a bit high end (Toh Wing Gen 5 Incu, Incu Sunnies)., but remained the same when switching weapons.
Roughly the same for PVP (Hydra).
Maybe I did something wrong? O_o;
RE: Lunakaligo > LBW - Naruhodo - 11-04-2009
What calculator did you use? I did the RMS stat calculator and added in the weapon attack, extra SP and the % damage increase from cards at the bottom of the champ stat calculator where they calculate asura damage, but there's probably a better way to do it...
I would've used the doddler calculator but they dont have luna on their weapon list it looked like.
Edit: To simplify things a lot I did another comparison, this time on a lvl99 jlvl 70 Champion on the RMS calculator with lvl10 Bless and 99 base str and int. I added the sp from the high end equips and the 30% sp increase and the 6%diabolous+maidens hat atk increases.
Since I made an error with adding refine atk, I won't count refine atk for either in this calculation.
For the lunakaligo I put 117atk (+7 from the diabolus&maiden hat atk increases), +0sp, and +75% damage increase from 3 AK cards.
=148540
For the LBW I put 64atk (+4 from the diabolus&maiden hat atk increases) , +390 sp, and +50% damage increase.
=126756damage
That's a 21784 damage difference, which is definitely bigger than my first calculation, which had errors. I'm not sure how you got a 30k difference??
But anyway yeah, I definitely agree now, even more than I agreed before, that a 3 AK Lunakaligo is definitely better for MVP damage. The added 20k is probably worth the soul-destroying AK farming since, in a most extreme example, it could mean 28??Lex'd Asuras instead of 33 to do 7,700,000 damage (Ifrit's HP).
I made a mistake with my first calculation and I'm not ashamed to admit it
But as far as PvP goes, it's a bit of a different story.
With hydra cards it's
Lunakaligo: 127320
LBW: 118305
which is a 9015 difference. That's almost 10k, which is nothing to sneeze at, but I still stand by my opinion that LBW is probably better for PvP because of it's +1dex, because even doing 9k less damage, high-end Asura will still almost always kill a player anyway.