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+--- Thread: Woe is descrimination! (/showthread.php?tid=17950)
RE: Woe is descrimination! - mahawirasd - 01-06-2011
1st off, it's discrimination. DISCRIMINATION. WITH AN I.
2nd of all, of course WOE discriminates. It discriminates just like how people who work harder for a test usually end up getting better results than those who don't. It discriminates just like how people who are born in rich families tend to get a better education than those who don't. And the list goes on, ad infinitum. So either Alt-F4, del *.*, /wrist, and hope for a better re-roll (if there is one), or man up and grind your ass all day and all night to catch up with the server's runtime before you joined.
Sure barriers of entry is higher (no more OCA GRs, etc etc), sure it's unfair, but that's just life. Some countries are far more advanced than others, and more often than not it will take decades if not centuries just to catch up. But some countries did get their shit together and achieve stuff. No reason you can't bust your ass trying to catch up.
3. Opening new castles won't do much. Reasons stated by other people above are valid concerns and carry merit.
4. Box review doesn't seem to cut it too, imho, as no matter how good the drops are, not enough people will dare jump the chasm unless they're already properly manned, geared, and possess the collective inclination to try that leap of faith. It's as they say; if you can't beat them, join them. Furthermore, if you up the rewards now, the ante newbies have to put in the pot is still way too much compared to what the incumbents have to furnish. This scenario will end with even bigger monopolies and a select few enjoying the rewards rather than a more equitable share of proceeds.
5. That being said, it seems most people WOE without proper BCR assessments and most seem to neglect the fact that only those select few enjoy the added value their bodies have provided over the years. Nothing wrong with that i guess, it's just how it is when capitalism is the norm. You can say it's human nature, i think it's just greed.
6. So, if you've read no.4 and 5 above properly, you'll find that the best way to reap the benefits of WOE (and providing the eager masses with the clashes they've been awaiting), one should exhibit one's leadership, make a guild, and provide others with a good reason why they should party up with you rather than the incumbents (perhaps an equitable share could do the trick?). Or if all else fails, one could probably affect others just by pressing on regardless. I choose to believe hard work will pay off, it's just a matter of how much cost one is willing to sacrifice before expecting rewards. If you can't even figure out your own BCR, then perhaps you should review your life before you get carried away aimlessly.
That being said, i still think that the current WOE time settings do not yet appreciate timezones other than NA timezones. Although this setting is entirely understandable on the setup stages of the server, it now begs the question of whether the target population at the beginning of the server is still the major population playing. I suppose one can easily determine which ip addresses play HeRO and which WOEs and, based on certain assumptions, calculate what proportion of those different player populations have been tapped for WOE then adjust the WOE times accordingly to PERHAPS allow those untapped populations to participate in WOE. If those untapped players turn out to be uninterested in WOE even at more agreeable time settings, then at least one can say that one has tried each and every conceivable way of getting more people to WOE.
So, to recap:
Treasure box changes CHECK
Castle changes CHECK
Closing castles CHECK
Opening castles CHECK
Expanded guild dungeons CHECK
Bonus guild dungeon drops CHECK
Time changes ???
-w-
RE: Woe is descrimination! - Corporal - 01-06-2011
Even if time changes are implemented, all you would do is change the people who WoE. For example, if you kept the current WoE times, Asian timezones would lose. In the same way, if you set a time to accommodate those timezones, then you would lose the American timezone players.
However, since this server has a much larger population of those in American timezones (as shown in the population counts at each time in the day), a change in WoE time to accommodate Asian timezones would be detrimental to WoE as a whole.
RE: Woe is descrimination! - Namine - 01-06-2011
Changing timezone doesn't fix anything, but just change the faces. Assume a same ratio of non-NA players want to participate in WoE like the current NA player population. But nothing else changed... all you got is a new group of people, facing the same problem that the current NA group is facing. So changing the time of WoE is another issue altogether.
It's a valid suggestion for another topic, but it's not related to this one here.
RE:??Woe is descrimination! - thecursed - 01-06-2011
Kiyochan Wrote:Bodom Wrote:Behe will send corp in and he'll solo that guild and some sinx will break emp. Or DoE will send Kroms to own everyone and there dogs in the castle.
LOL.
Psshhh I dont even get a mention? I should switch my SinX into WoE build for a change of pace.
lmao in Kroms we trust.
RE:??Woe is descrimination! - thecursed - 01-06-2011
Matrim Cauthon Jr Wrote:Now onto castle treasures, that aspect really doesn't seem worth it. Yes, God Items, but while it may take a whole guild a few years to make one, only a few in the guild would get to use it. So I think upgrading the other rewards would help. Derandomizing & opening more could help.
Lastly, I would like GD access but I also wouldn't feel right if just anyone, anywhere could enter. Especially if it is pvp flagged.
guild dungeons have always been PVP flagged for as long as i can remember playing RO.
Also the loots as they are right now are as good as they can get (in my opinion). The only thing really valuable to guilds like DoE and Behemoth are the top tier equip drops and OCA's, I'm sure both guilds have a whole storage account filled with s bucklers, s mufflers, s shoes, and other random stuff no one uses. The only way to improve it would be to raise the chance of things like Stone Bucklers, Wool scarf and tidal shoes, etc etc. That might be too much though especially for the guilds who have high eco castles. Only way to improve loots right now in my opinion would be to put gear that is totally out of the question in it like MVP gear. Which no i dont want because i think the chests are fair enough as it is. And then you would take even more meaning away from high end MVPing and more attention to WoE. More attention to WoE isnt bad but when the only people doing top tier MVPs are the top WoE guilds, you would probably get less and less if the same drops were available from castles.
RE: Woe is descrimination! - Kanto - 01-06-2011
I cant say i'm in a small guild, however i AM in a PvM guild. I , personally am almost WoE ready with my char, and on that point i will do everything to get these people to WoE aswell. If i fail, I will either lend myself to WoE guilds or switch all together. Are there even "small" WoE guilds?
RE: ??Woe is descrimination! - The Legendary Joe - 01-06-2011
thecursed Wrote:Matrim Cauthon Jr Wrote:Now onto castle treasures, that aspect really doesn't seem worth it. Yes, God Items, but while it may take a whole guild a few years to make one, only a few in the guild would get to use it. So I think upgrading the other rewards would help. Derandomizing & opening more could help.
Lastly, I would like GD access but I also wouldn't feel right if just anyone, anywhere could enter. Especially if it is pvp flagged.
guild dungeons have always been PVP flagged for as long as i can remember playing RO.
Not quite the same as PVP, People in your guild, and allied guilds can't attack you! Also party members can't attack you. It's more GVG than PVP.
RE:??Woe is descrimination! - RoChickita - 01-06-2011
mahawirasd Wrote:1st off, it's discrimination. DISCRIMINATION. WITH AN I.LOL you take this WAY to seriously for a game.
2nd of all, of course WOE discriminates. It discriminates just like how people who work harder for a test usually end up getting better results than those who don't. It discriminates just like how people who are born in rich families tend to get a better education than those who don't. And the list goes on, ad infinitum. So either Alt-F4, del *.*, /wrist, and hope for a better re-roll (if there is one), or man up and grind your ass all day and all night to catch up with the server's runtime before you joined.
Sure barriers of entry is higher (no more OCA GRs, etc etc), sure it's unfair, but that's just life. Some countries are far more advanced than others, and more often than not it will take decades if not centuries just to catch up. But some countries did get their shit together and achieve stuff. No reason you can't bust your ass trying to catch up.
3. Opening new castles won't do much. Reasons stated by other people above are valid concerns and carry merit.
4. Box review doesn't seem to cut it too, imho, as no matter how good the drops are, not enough people will dare jump the chasm unless they're already properly manned, geared, and possess the collective inclination to try that leap of faith. It's as they say; if you can't beat them, join them. Furthermore, if you up the rewards now, the ante newbies have to put in the pot is still way too much compared to what the incumbents have to furnish. This scenario will end with even bigger monopolies and a select few enjoying the rewards rather than a more equitable share of proceeds.
5. That being said, it seems most people WOE without proper BCR assessments and most seem to neglect the fact that only those select few enjoy the added value their bodies have provided over the years. Nothing wrong with that i guess, it's just how it is when capitalism is the norm. You can say it's human nature, i think it's just greed.
6. So, if you've read no.4 and 5 above properly, you'll find that the best way to reap the benefits of WOE (and providing the eager masses with the clashes they've been awaiting), one should exhibit one's leadership, make a guild, and provide others with a good reason why they should party up with you rather than the incumbents (perhaps an equitable share could do the trick?). Or if all else fails, one could probably affect others just by pressing on regardless. I choose to believe hard work will pay off, it's just a matter of how much cost one is willing to sacrifice before expecting rewards. If you can't even figure out your own BCR, then perhaps you should review your life before you get carried away aimlessly.
That being said, i still think that the current WOE time settings do not yet appreciate timezones other than NA timezones. Although this setting is entirely understandable on the setup stages of the server, it now begs the question of whether the target population at the beginning of the server is still the major population playing. I suppose one can easily determine which ip addresses play HeRO and which WOEs and, based on certain assumptions, calculate what proportion of those different player populations have been tapped for WOE then adjust the WOE times accordingly to PERHAPS allow those untapped populations to participate in WOE. If those untapped players turn out to be uninterested in WOE even at more agreeable time settings, then at least one can say that one has tried each and every conceivable way of getting more people to WOE.
So, to recap:
Treasure box changes CHECK
Castle changes CHECK
Closing castles CHECK
Opening castles CHECK
Expanded guild dungeons CHECK
Bonus guild dungeon drops CHECK
Time changes ???
-w-
One question: What guild are you in?
RE: ??Woe is descrimination! - Aaronock - 01-06-2011
RoChickita Wrote:mahawirasd Wrote:1st off, it's discrimination. DISCRIMINATION. WITH AN I.LOL you take this WAY to seriously for a game.
2nd of all, of course WOE discriminates. It discriminates just like how people who work harder for a test usually end up getting better results than those who don't. It discriminates just like how people who are born in rich families tend to get a better education than those who don't. And the list goes on, ad infinitum. So either Alt-F4, del *.*, /wrist, and hope for a better re-roll (if there is one), or man up and grind your ass all day and all night to catch up with the server's runtime before you joined.
Sure barriers of entry is higher (no more OCA GRs, etc etc), sure it's unfair, but that's just life. Some countries are far more advanced than others, and more often than not it will take decades if not centuries just to catch up. But some countries did get their shit together and achieve stuff. No reason you can't bust your ass trying to catch up.
3. Opening new castles won't do much. Reasons stated by other people above are valid concerns and carry merit.
4. Box review doesn't seem to cut it too, imho, as no matter how good the drops are, not enough people will dare jump the chasm unless they're already properly manned, geared, and possess the collective inclination to try that leap of faith. It's as they say; if you can't beat them, join them. Furthermore, if you up the rewards now, the ante newbies have to put in the pot is still way too much compared to what the incumbents have to furnish. This scenario will end with even bigger monopolies and a select few enjoying the rewards rather than a more equitable share of proceeds.
5. That being said, it seems most people WOE without proper BCR assessments and most seem to neglect the fact that only those select few enjoy the added value their bodies have provided over the years. Nothing wrong with that i guess, it's just how it is when capitalism is the norm. You can say it's human nature, i think it's just greed.
6. So, if you've read no.4 and 5 above properly, you'll find that the best way to reap the benefits of WOE (and providing the eager masses with the clashes they've been awaiting), one should exhibit one's leadership, make a guild, and provide others with a good reason why they should party up with you rather than the incumbents (perhaps an equitable share could do the trick?). Or if all else fails, one could probably affect others just by pressing on regardless. I choose to believe hard work will pay off, it's just a matter of how much cost one is willing to sacrifice before expecting rewards. If you can't even figure out your own BCR, then perhaps you should review your life before you get carried away aimlessly.
That being said, i still think that the current WOE time settings do not yet appreciate timezones other than NA timezones. Although this setting is entirely understandable on the setup stages of the server, it now begs the question of whether the target population at the beginning of the server is still the major population playing. I suppose one can easily determine which ip addresses play HeRO and which WOEs and, based on certain assumptions, calculate what proportion of those different player populations have been tapped for WOE then adjust the WOE times accordingly to PERHAPS allow those untapped populations to participate in WOE. If those untapped players turn out to be uninterested in WOE even at more agreeable time settings, then at least one can say that one has tried each and every conceivable way of getting more people to WOE.
So, to recap:
Treasure box changes CHECK
Castle changes CHECK
Closing castles CHECK
Opening castles CHECK
Expanded guild dungeons CHECK
Bonus guild dungeon drops CHECK
Time changes ???
-w-
One question: What guild are you in?
You'd be surprised to hear that Wira isn't in a WoE based guild.
Wira I think still is running his Indonesian guild Garuda Pan...something or another...(sorry don't remember the other word for it).
Some of us still care about the overall status of the server even if we cannot WoE often or at all. Even if it isn't the most important aspect to some they do understand it is the drive for a server in some cases, especially in regards to the economy. :]
RE: Woe is descrimination! - RoChickita - 01-06-2011
That's interesting info Aaronock, it sounded as though he is vouching for bigger guilds though.
But in essence, the game's economy would be more balanced if everyone had an equal shot at getting the same things. However if only a handful have access to an item, it can be easily put on sale for a higher price.
If we need to compare this - for the sake of it- to real life, if one store sold hot cakes, they can overcharge. But if people had access to the recipe, the price would suddenly go down because buying it would be out of laziness rather than inability to have it.
Edit side note: And for the record, I belong to a big guild but I am trying to get smaller guilds into the game. It would be more fun to have more castles and more contenders. But the fact that as soon as big guilds see a smaller guild take a castle, they ALL rush in to take it away from them. Whereas if you have all castles open, it becomes more strategic rather than just "ALL ATTACK AT ONCE" kind of thing. I'd love to see smaller guilds compete. It would make woe more fun. As is, woe is quite boring going back and forth in the same castles. It's like playing tug-o-war with giants.