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+--- Thread: Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? (/showthread.php?tid=11287)
RE:??Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Yuriohs - 09-02-2009 11:50 AM
Proxyt Wrote:Again, -IF- behe held Pront adamantly the strongest guilds combined and could not take them down for 1-2 months. They'd give up. Would you ask to close down Prontera castle then?
That's basically what you're doing here. Unless you prove us wrong by attacking and taking Alde.
No, they don't give up. They never give up, we didn't give up against LW, which was far worse than behe holding it (they held pront probally for a month) and we didn't give up.And they didn't give up, holding pront, they kept it up. Same with behe.
Proxy, your missing the point. Get some dex bro, better yet ill buff you.
Also Proxy, come on man, I send people to alde to scout it out so I can plan an atttack. Other than that people do not attack alde.
And an "attack" isn't just 5 or 6 people running into a castle. Its about 10-15 people coming in, standing in pre emp, discussing an attack checking the defense, then striking.
Does that happen in alde bro? do sages cast LP to get rid of the cast and the guild run in?
RE: ????Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Nidsrule - 09-02-2009 11:53 AM
Pistis_Sophia Wrote:Nidsrule Wrote:The entire point in arguing for Alde having it's own time slot is to get rid of that choice. (...)
I don't buy into the whole "it becomes easy econ for the next top guild".
I don't say it would be an EASY economy for the next top guild. I say it would push elitism farther by giving the same guild the opportunity to own two WoE instead of one.
As far as I remember one of the politics of the server is to have features to favor newcomers and average players with less features for elite players.
Just as an exemple that +40 str accessory can't be made on the server.
WoE has nothing to do with favoring new comers. Nothing. Even Cucu claims that alde was intended for "retro WoE" rather than being targeted at new players. It is end game content and as such it is designed for players who have been playing for some time, have leveled their chars to a decent level and have geared them out to the point where they can be competitive in WoE/MvPing/PvP etc. Nothing about WoE was ever intended to favour "newcomers and average players".
RE: Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Indra - 09-02-2009 12:25 PM
The main problem I can't get past with having non-trans woe on a separate day, is that it is basically a '2 for the price of 1' deal for any of the larger guilds. You can get eco from two different castles with only having to defend 1 at a time. (This is what Pistis has been trying to get across)
You could say its not like that, because you have to use different characters, but as long as a guild has the amount of people, I doubt that'll ever be a problem. Everyone has alts, or trans chars in the making, its a 5x exp server, why wouldn't you? Do we really want HeRo to have what is essentially double eco?
RE: Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Aaronock - 09-02-2009 12:32 PM
Actually many servers I was on in the past did different castles for each WoE day.
So like Payon on Sunday and on Weds Prontera and maybe Thursday Alde and on Saturday Geffen. It was kind of a nice setup to me really and they usually put the WoE's at different times, but those were on more internationally based servers.
You can also make sure guilds can only have like 1 castle max if you think its necessary o.O
And no I'm not saying to implement that but saying it has been xD
RE: Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Nidsrule - 09-02-2009 12:39 PM
So change the way the econ works for Alde (yet again). I'd even go as far as to suggest getting rid of econ entirely coupled with giving alde it's own time slot (sup wil) but people are going to want some form of reward for the items they would have to use.
You could even change the drops entirely to something along the lines of WoE supplies that would typically used in trans WoE. Bundles of star sands, immo hearts, karvo and the like would still give guilds incentive to hold the castle, while not being as imbalanced as the castle dropping valk shields, wool scarves etc.
@Aaron: I don't think limiting a guild to 1 castle would solve the issue, as I'd assume most guilds would make alt guilds just for Alde WoE if it were to be implemented as a separate event.
RE: Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Namine - 09-02-2009 03:24 PM
tl;dr
100% theory for both side, 0% of actual plan for execution. (excluding the ones to say keep it exactly the same as now, then there's no plan that needs to be discussed)
Instead of shouting matches, how about everyone on every side writing out some detailed plan on how to carry out your idealized changes on Aldebaran WoE Castle? Only when you have detailed plans with some dates and numbers rolling can you start some actual calculation.
Pure trash talking and speculation without plans only make you sound like a Canadian politician and it isn't going to convince anyone.
Let's get some questions for thought to start some actual planning going. I honestly think that nobody on any side has thought it through on all possible viewpoints and directions yet. We have no clue what the GMs want or what they are thinking, but let's at least make ourselves presentable and civilized regardless of what you stand for.
1) If you want to move it to a new time slot, what is the time? how long per non-trans woe? how often? what date? does trans woe also need adjustments to accommodate? Will new time make it more difficult for events such as ToH to be hosted or interfere with any other events? Does the increased frequency of another type of WoE affect players in their preparations for WoE? Does trans WoE need adjustment to accommodate?
2) If you want to increase/decrease eco formula, what should be the new formula? Do take into account that increasing eco cap doesn't always mean an increase in chest, because you can change the equation for number of eco to constitute a chest. Vice versa is also true that lowering the cap isn't always an end to chests. So, give an actual formula if you want to change how eco works in Aldebaran. (note: it is hard coded 12 AM of every day, you *will* get some number of chests. It's not possible within our limits to change this rule. Likewise the guild ability of eco development for 2 points instead of 1 is also not going to change.)
2b) If you also want to change the content of the chests, what should they be? Do trans chests need to change to accommodate the changes?
3) If you think that Aldebaran castle is fine in design and the problem lies outside of the design, then what is the problem (if any)? How should we solve it?
4) If you think that Aldebaran castle is beyond save and needs absolute closing, what should be done for the guild currently owning the castle, if any? According to those who believe in this, GMs need to forcibly cease the castle away from the current owners (unlike previous payon castle where we ask a guild leader to unconditionally surrender the castle), so should compensation be given? If so, what should it be? Does trans castle need to change accordingly since the total number of castles changed?
5) Changes done to a "heRO feature" by GMs isn't an act that only answers heRO, but also towards all advertisement sites including RMS where "other server players" crawl all the other servers' forums to wait for a chance to make a "false advertisement" call and other ruleshark activity to discredit server reviews/popularity. How should the server prepare for any of these related threats?
6) For any sort of change related to this castle, *when* should the change take place? When to execute the plan? How do we choose the date of executing the plans so that it is fair for all guilds (especially if there's a "nerf" or "buff" in prizes/chests?)
RE: Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Proxyt - 09-02-2009 04:23 PM
What do we do if we think it's pretty much fine?
I'm pretty sure we refuted all the arguments for changing Alde and demonstrated why Alde is fine as it is... unless you want to raise eco to increase interest in Alde.
RE:??Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Général_Argos - 09-02-2009 04:59 PM
Proxyt Wrote:I'm pretty sure we refuted all the arguments for changing AldeArguments were as follow :
1) We have two events occuring at the same time, in this case regular-woe and retro-woe.??Dual clienting being forbiden on hero, being at 2 events at the same time can pose problems.??
2) The reward of the retro-woe is too much for what it takes in term of investment of efforts.??No materials to hunt for bombs and edps and the such.??On that point, you are here since, hmmm 5 months and you have the arrogance to determine what requires effort and what doesn't in term of game balance on the server???Claiming that something requires effort while your the one doing it is pure and simple self-condescendance.??You never saw the other side of the board.??(Same was for lw in their early days)
Those were the two principal arguments for altering Alde
You didn't refut them.
RE:??Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Yuriohs - 09-02-2009 05:09 PM
Waaaaaaay 2 much to quote Namine.
You do realize this is discussion can't cover all of that before we get a decision? You make the discussion, then the poll, then the decision is made. Then after, we figure out what and how exactly we are going to do this.
What your talking about Namine is way 2 much when we don't know exactly whats going to happen with alde.
Right now, we are talking about the pros and cons about what exactly to do with alde. After we figure it out, then we discuss the niddy gritty.
RE: ??Why is Alde/Nontrans Castles There? - Proxyt - 09-02-2009 05:42 PM
G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:Arguments were as follow :
1) We have two events occuring at the same time, in this case regular-woe and retro-woe.??Dual clienting being forbiden on hero, being at 2 events at the same time can pose problems.??
2) The reward of the retro-woe is too much for what it takes in term of investment of efforts.??No materials to hunt for bombs and edps and the such.??On that point, you are here since, hmmm 5 months and you have the arrogance to determine what requires effort and what doesn't in term of game balance on the server???Claiming that something requires effort while your the one doing it is pure and simple self-condescendance.??You never saw the other side of the board.??(Same was for lw in their early days)
Hmm...
1.
Pistis_Sophia Wrote:Giving it's own time slot would provide the same guild to own both trans WoE and non-trans WoE without increasing their guildies amount.
Sophia also posted several more points about this. Too lazy to quote more.
2. Firstly, thank you sir(sarcasm), for calling me names like arrogant and implying since I am newer than you that I cannot even tell if there are enemies attacking Alde or not. If you continue such behaviour I will simply ignore you. People who want to resolve an issue do not namecall.
Simply because you were a member of LW does not mean you are a god nor that your word means more than mine, particularly in this issue, where I personally have been involved in Alde and you have simply been looking at it from afar.
And as for the 2nd point... it's contradictory
First people say they don't want to go to Alde and give up on the great rewards of Trans WoE, because Alde rewards suck.
Then you say Alde rewards are great and takes no effort to get.
Yes we don't have to hunt for AD and EDP mats, we still have to convert, fish, speed pot, berserk, blue gem, trap, etc.
That's also why Alde does not have a 100 eco cap. It has 20.
If you think it takes no effort for good rewards. Come take it.