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WoE Drop Change Proposal - GM-Ayu - 07-22-2009
Currently we have 40 possible treasure chests in WoE. 20 of them are identical (all the odd number ones) and 20 of them contains god items. They are currently identical to RMS listing. You get any of the 40 randomly by chance.
Please give massive honest opinions especially if the drop rate is too high! Again none of this is final at all, but this is what an initial basic round of talks in test/dev decided on (well, 50+ views and only 3 actually replied and there's only like 30 testers at best... so I assume that discussion there is done.) Anything with "(exactly from official)" logo on it cannot go down in drop rate in suggestion, but you can suggest going higher.
There are no items that are unobtainable outside of WoE except zeny knife (jewel sword and gaia sword I *believe* i stuck it in some monsters somewhere for new svn as well now. Not like they're gamebreaking anyway.)
All percentages here are including the 3x drop rate (the 3x is already applied). So this is the exact rate you'll get ingame.
Generic (Odd number) Chests
All generic chests will retain their ygg berry, ygg seed, 3carat diamond and OCA unchanged at exact same rate. The "muffler, buckler, chain mail and shoes all at 24%" setup will change. They are meant to drop very basic non-trans things, just that I'm sure we're all tired of 300+ chainmails.
All generic chests additionally drop "Gold" at 4.5%.
Treasure Chest 1 3 5 7 9-
Coat[1] 24%, Thief Clothes[1] 15%, Chainmail[1] 15%, Saint's Robe[1] 15%
Treasure Chest 11 13 15 17 19-
Guard[1] 24%, Buckler[1] 15%, Shield[1] 15%, Mirror Shield[1] 15%
Treasure Chest 21 23 25 27 29-
Muffler[1] 24%, Manteau[1] 15%, Heavenly Maiden Robe[1] 15% , Silk Robe[1] 15%
Treasture Chest 31 33 35 37 39-
Shoes[1] 24%, Boots[1] 15%, Greaves[1] 15%, Mink Coat[1] 15%
Most generic of each category is set at 24%, tie with current drop.
More specific but better drops are set at 15%. Almost all items there's a "better version" of them out there.
Note: Silk Robe => the only currently 'still the best' for slotted armor with highest mdef but I think this should be acceptable
Specific Chests
All specific chests drop god item at same chances.
All specific chests keep elunium, oridecon, and tribal solidarity unchanged.
Bloody Branch is added at 4% (3.99 to be exact, since our drop rate of 3x must end in multiples of 3) in all specific chests.
No WoE:SE god item ingredients are added, and this decision will not change.
Each group of 3 = 1 chest.
Note: following item makes multiple appearances in chests
Divine Clothes[1] 3 times at 6% all
Odin's Blessing[1] 2 times at 6% all
Wool Scarf[1] 3 times at 6% all
Tidal Shoes[1] 3 times at 6% all
24% Blade[4]
6% Odin's Blessing[1]
3% Life Link[1]
24% Composite Bow[4]
6% Wool Scarf[1]
4.5% Drooping Cat[0]
45% Fuuma Shuriken Daisharin[4]
15% Critical Ring[0] (exactly from official)
4.5% Drill Katar[1] (exactly from official)
12% Formal Suit[1]
4.5% Battle Hook[1] (exactly from official)
3% Feather Beret[0]
24% Violin[4]
6% Wool Scarf[1]
3% Harp of Nepentis[2]
24% Rope[4]
6% Tidal Shoes[1]
3% Stem of Nepentis[2]
6% Divine Clothes[1]
4.5% Barrage Fist[4] (exactly from official)
4.5% Stunner[2]
6% Divine Clothes[1]
4.5% Tracker's Dagger[3]
3% Orcish Axe[4]
24% Ashura[3]
6% Ninja Suit[1]
3% Bazerald[0]
4.5% Freezing Bow (exactly from official)
4.5% Gale Bow (exactly from official)
4.5% Earthen Bow (exactly from official)
24% Jur[3]
12% Specialty Jur[4]
4.5% Kandra[1]
4.5% Survivor's Rod[1] (Int)
4.5% Survivor's Rod[1] (Dex)
4.5% High Quality Sandal[1]
12% Mage Coat[0]
4.5% Survivor's Manteau[0]
3% Sage's Diary[2]
24% Apple of Archer[0]
15% Long Barrel[1]
6% Sheriff's Manteau[1]
6% Stone Buckler[1]
6% Odin's Blessing[1]
4.5% Sacred Mission[0]
6% Divine Clothes[1]
3% Masamune[0]
0.06% Helm of the Sun God[0] (exactly from official, WILL NOT CHANGE)
15% Jewel Sword[0]
15% Gaia Sword[0]
15% Zeny Knife[0]
6% Wolfheiden[1]
6% Tidal Shoes[1]
3% Valkyrja's Shield [1]
12% Spiky Band[0]
6% Tidal Shoes[1]
4.5% Naga Scale Armor[1]
24% Book[3]
6% Wool Scarf[1]
4.5% Glittering Jacket[1]
Statistical calculation to help you in evaluating if the drop is too high or too low:
Statistical Analysis for items that only drop from 1 chest:
The chance of obtaining a 24% drop item within any one chest: 0.6%
The chance of obtaining a 6% drop item within any one chest: 0.15%
The chance of obtaining a 4.5% drop item within any one chest: 0.11%
The chance of obtaining a 3% drop item within any one chest: 0.075%
The chance of obtaining a tidal/wool/divine within any one chest: 0.45%
The chance of obtaining an odin's blessing within any one chest: 0.30%
To obtain the percentage of getting at least one of the drop item within one treasure chest session instead of per chest, use:
1-{[1-(chance of obtaining that item within one chest in percent)/100]^(number of chests you are expecting)}
eg: chance of getting valk shield if i have 10 chests
1-{[1-(0.075)/100]^10} = 0.74%
So I have a 0.74% to get at least one valk shield in one night if my castle produces 10 chests. (this number is true for any equipment that drops at 3% here)
Discussion will end when posts in this thread fail to be civilized/well behaved. It will also end when i see that no one posts relevant replies here after a few days. I'll also post in advance if I'm ending the discussion if other aspects of the new svn are nearing its completion and we need to get the updated WoE drops finalized for final testing.
Speak now about this issue if you see problems in the WoE change and give solutions, or forever hold your peace!
RE: WoE Drop Change Proposal - GM-Ayu - 07-22-2009
Someone in test/dev finally replied just now thinking if the 3% drops in the specific chests should all be bumped up to something like 3.6% or 3.9% as a suggestion.
RE: WoE Drop Change Proposal - Neuneck - 07-22-2009
I don't like the new drops, at least for the items like wools, tidals, valk shields. Those items have a high demand, even higher assuming they are wanted/needed in higher refine scores as WoE items.
I don't know how chaotic WoE is these days, as I haven't participated lately, but the chance to find such a high value item within a chest with a higher probability than by killing the only monster ingame that drops it regularly makes me fear those items loosing value. Those monsters are rather easy to farm for certain classes (SinX/Sniper for banshees and High Priests for Raggeds, as well as a pair of HP and Sniper for Mini Valks).
I see that these drops would certainly make the guilds really want to keep a castle to build up some eco, but on the other hand, it makes keeping a castle more important than taking castles.
To me, WoE is about the fame, about the thrill and about the fun. It's about working as a team and measuring skill. Of course, equip and thus dedication to the game makes a big part of WoE success, but that's just like real life; noone would disagree if someone who works more should earn more and have an easier life. (of course what exactly is "working more" is a matter to be discussed about in concern to real life)
I will not negate that I speak in my own interest here, my main char is a SinX and my main source of income was, and is, the sale of wools and refined wools. Yet I see nothing wrong in my defense of my economic base.
I won't say no to wools/tidals/valks in WoE chests at all, but in my opinion their chance to obtain is too high.
Other items, that would be of interest, are items that are useful, too, but in a more playful way. Hatter Cards, life insurances, Haircut coupons (lol), Gloves [1], Earring [1], Brooch [1], maybe a more specific kind of OCA dropping useful cards, but not the most valuable ones (and in return less crappy cards), OPBs, maybe exprience coupons (like red envelopes, only they add a certain ammount of base/job xp).
RE: WoE Drop Change Proposal - Aaronock - 07-22-2009
We are getting new items, perhaps generic higher items could be hair coupons and stuff too.
Moe you put a new perspective on it all. I always believed it shoulda been combo pieces *pieces for goibne's, odin's, and morph more specifically.*
RE: WoE Drop Change Proposal - GM-Pandora - 07-24-2009
Already gave my comments in the test & dev, I like your proposal, I made a few suggestions but I still like it as it is. Haircut coupon is not a bad idea, slotted accessories is good also. Maybe some reset items could be fine too (amulet, memory bookmark, torn scroll).
Overall, if it makes a few more people/guild participate in woe than the goal will be achieved. I don't think the new drops are too much, even if some chests drop wool/tidal, the leader has no control over what chests he/she gets, each chest has a 1/40 chance of appearing, and a guild leader has a whole guild to look after who need equipments, so these new drops will in no way replace hunting for those high in demand gear.
I think goibne/morph should remain where they are, abyss and thana could use more visitors, they're good dungeons but people usually prefer going to nameless or thor.
RE: WoE Drop Change Proposal - Ardney Wolf - 07-24-2009
Rates as listed in the OP are fine. Economies in MMOs are destined to change due to new content updates. That's the natural order of things.
Additionally, the number of attempts on chests per day is fixed and small. The number of attempts on a Ragged Zombie or a Banshee is limited only by the amount of time you have to play. Having the base drop chance for each method of acquiring Wools/Tidals set differently only makes sense since a dozen chances per day from chests < hundreds of chances per day from monster hunting. The same logic can be applied to any of the other item drops listed for the chests.
RE: WoE Drop Change Proposal - Astroboi - 07-24-2009
I support the idea, but something has to be done with Aldebaran alongside this. Having the same drops in that abandoned place and both highly competitive trans castles that break 2+ times a woe doesn't seem very fair to me. "Then why don't YOU go to aldebaran?" might you ask, well that's just moving the problem, LOA/DD is the only guild willing and able to compete with Behemoth, while the newer Revenga and NE fight each other in payon. If LoA/DD moves to aldebaran, Behemoth would just sit on their economy.
I believe heRO's woe population is still too small for 3 castles, the best solution IMO (as brought up here: http://pandoraonline.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=10397) would be to move Retro WoE to another day. THAT would surely bring up some heavy retro action like it was meant to.
RE:??WoE Drop Change Proposal - Ardney Wolf - 07-24-2009
While I disagree with several points in your analysis, the conclusion reached isn't bad. WoE 1.0 and 2.0 were on diff days on the iRO Valk server for similar reasons.
Alternatively, it might be possible to leave the Ald castle with the current drops (and perhaps an improved upper limit on chests?) while giving the new droplist to the trans WoE castles.
That being said, I prefer the former solution to the latter.
[edit] Also, if the pre-trans WoE did get it's own day I feel the participant list should be expanded to include the extended classes as well.
RE: WoE Drop Change Proposal - GM-Pandora - 07-24-2009
Alde has a cap of eco to compensate for its difficulty. Besides, it has seen a lot of action and some change of ownership in the past few weeks/months with bamboo but also sugar rush, wings of valnir, gli atroci, ordo, celestial and a few other smaller guilds showing up at times. The castles themselves are not up for discussion here at any rate, this is about the chests and we're not separating the chests between castles.
RE: WoE Drop Change Proposal - Neuneck - 07-28-2009
How about chipping in some of those lower % MVP drops that aren't OP if they appear a bit more often (like Bazerald, Light Epsilon, Hurricane's Fury (not sure on that one though))?? Those items are nice-to-have but won't make a guild keeping a castle for a longer time too overpowered?
Also I agree that those drops are somewhat over the top for the non-trans woE.