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+--- Thread: Is WoE on heRO accessible? (/showthread.php?tid=13141)
Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Snapplewee - 01-24-2010
For quite some time now, WoE on heRO has been, as far as I have heard, quite stale.
I've been thinking in some of my free time about this issue. Bear with this post, I have spent time on it.
heRO WoE has no doubt been dominated by a few guilds over the last few years. Well, let's stop there and analyze that:
1.) This is not an easy feat. In a server this size, for power to be between a few guilds is generally difficult. These guilds have deserved what they have because of hard work.
2.) I do so however how this is frustrating. Outside guilds looking for a new server could be daunted by the task of "holy crap, they have 6 or so Ghostring's in that guild, and another 5 in this guild!"
With point 1 you find my sympathy for the guilds in command. I was in LW when it was peaking. I left right before they began to hold Prontera Castle for as long as they did at 100 eco. The work is insane. You'd think once you get the good gears that you'd be set. That's not really the case. There is so much upkeep. Zeny, healing items, new gears/chars (a lot of serious RO players will gladly switch classes to help the guild). It is a lot to demand from players.
With point 2, you find my concerns for server growth. I am "part" of a guild that has server hopped. One day we were talking about heRO and I flat out said "They have a ton of Ghostrings in the main guilds, via a feature that has recently been nerfed (good thing), but making it very difficult for new guilds to get up to speed with the existing guilds". I have since quit "playing" RO because I am quite bored with normal game play. Server hopping is draining. My guild put heRO to a vote (for which I voted Yes before you think I was talking down about heRO. I only spoke ill of the WoE.) and heRO was voted "No".
The fact is that in the current format WoE is in, it is a damn near impossible task for a new guild to get up to speed.
This is where it gets messy folks. I'll try to organize the flow of my thoughts.
A.) Guilds have established themselves via hard work. They have higher tier MvP's camped and great gear due to time spent on heRO.
B.) Guilds should not be punished because of that. Hard work should be rewarded, and they certainly are being rewarded.
C.) The problem is that because of this, it will, and does, deter outside guilds from joining heRO.
This leaves very few options for improving conditions.
So what are we left with? I am absolutely against punishing the established guilds for their success. That is simply out of the question.
Opening up more castles wouldn't do much as well. It would leave the same "We'll hold Pront with a small precast, send out most of our guys to take Castle-A and if Pront is in trouble we recall" mentality that has existed.
A sensible option I have seen proposed is open up more castles, but have them open on different days. Such as:
Pront on Sunday
Payon on Wednesday
But I am against this undeveloped idea because it does in fact punish the successful guilds by throwing off the "balance" of WoE as is.
I don't have all the answers to this, I wish I did.
So, I have to ask you all a question, do you think heRO WoE is accessible? If yes, why? If not, why?
I am going to have to vote No, based on the arguments above.
If we want heRO to be accessible, how would we do it?
Alas, that is what I am proposing. It has to be done player side. The GM's really shouldn't intervene, because they really have a good system in place for WoE layout.
What do I mean by player-side?
It is up to these smaller WoE guilds to start banding together, working together and emulating the larger guilds, together. Ally with a larger guild for WoE experience. Get in on the front lines and see what works. Start doing research on how to kill MvPs. Figure out what MvP's have the drops you want. Clock the MvPs.
The problem can only be solved player side, not server side.
RE: Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Aaronock - 01-24-2010
Players actually I dunno, work and get better at the game.
The newer guilds don't work for what they want.
Many people in NE just expected older vets to hand everything to them and most didn't do jack shit for themselves. This is problematic, they didn't listen to leaders they just wanted it and didn't realize how much work it took.
They don't HAVE to ally larger guilds to learn how to do everything, they can learn by trial and error in general in partying in PvM. If you guys die left and right like I hear in Nameless n00b parties you got something wrong with you and you need to figure out what the hell it is.
Harsh, maybe, but the problem isn't that new guilds can't rise, they just choose to be lazy
RE:??Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Snapplewee - 01-24-2010
Aaronock Wrote:Players actually I dunno, work and get better at the game.??
The newer guilds don't work for what they want.??
Many people in NE just expected older vets to hand everything to them and most didn't do jack shit for themselves.??This is problematic, they didn't listen to leaders they just wanted it and didn't realize how much work it took.
They don't HAVE to ally larger guilds to learn how to do everything, they can learn by trial and error in general in partying in PvM.??If you guys die left and right like I hear in Nameless n00b parties you got something wrong with you and you need to figure out what the hell it is.
Harsh, maybe, but the problem isn't that new guilds can't rise, they just choose to be lazy
I understand the sentiment. It can be very frustrating being an established veteran of the server and seeing the newer guilds expecting to have everything handed to them. But that is why I believe the fix is in the players. A common goal needs to be shared among the smaller guilds to "overthrow" the larger guilds. While I don't expect them to really "overthrow" I do expect disruption. Making those guilds really work for what they got now.
I also believe a bit of rivalry is required to get the intense WoEs we need. While the LoA/LW hatred was constantly out of hand, a toned down version would help WoE become more interesting.
RE:??Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Sepharius - 01-24-2010
Aaronock Wrote:Harsh, maybe, but the problem isn't that new guilds can't rise, they just choose to be lazy
+1
RE: Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Aaronock - 01-24-2010
Even as a new player I would be disgusted by the laziness of some of my players in my guild. I feel people should work to be awesome, the best players on this server didn't whine that they couldn't get such and such item, they did what they could to actually earn it.
They partied, or made the zeny, or traded somehow for the item of their dreams with items they could get.
RE: Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Shikari - 01-24-2010
I'm with you there, personally I look around hero and most of the people are lazy, me included. MVP's being camped isnt an excuse to not kill them, just keep a watch on them yourselves and beat the larger guilds to them :c
as for the question I think it is, you just have to not be lazy and start working for it. as for how to fix it, no idea =[.
RE: Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Snapplewee - 01-24-2010
To be fair, they probably whined at first.
Think about the petty things the established powers have whined about? While it may not be the inability to acquire gear, it would be over "OH THIS MOVE CAN'T BE LEGAL IN WOE BECAUSE OF SUCH AND SUCH".
But you're absolutely right. You have to work. People will find when they actually put in the time, they have learned so much more.
RE: Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Aaronock - 01-24-2010
Well its up to the players indeed then to change their ATTITUDE about WoE or about gearing themselves up to do awesome shit.
Granted I cried about being unable to get stuff myself before too, but then I figured out what I just said above, and I started to farm Kiel Dungeon 1 when it first came out. I could kill Alizas with my sage at that time and made a fortune from Aliza dolls and Morpheus Shawls. Granted they were worth a lot more back then but players even now and days could get a lot of money starting out with mage classes out there.
But that's where I started accumulating a fortune and actually understanding how to get myself a foothold into the server's economy.
RE: Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Snapplewee - 01-24-2010
I'd like to add this isn't meant to be a "Snapple's Latest Drama" thread. This has been thought about for the several months. I have seen numerous threads about the WoE climate. I am merely now putting all my thoughts together.
Dani, that stuff needs to be told to players in game. Tell the new players the benefits of doing things alone. Show them if you can.
RE: Is WoE on heRO accessible? - Aaronock - 01-24-2010
But playing Diablo like clones such as RO are about discovering things on your own :x
Players should find their own tricks to making money and establishing themselves in the market. These forums people can read, I don't have to go in game and tell them this stuff.