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+--- Thread: Team Based ToH (/showthread.php?tid=22752)
Team Based ToH - Menace651 - 11-03-2012
Just a suggestion but why not allow parties in ToH? ToH is too biased towards non-support classes. A non-killer support class like a priest or bragi is at a severe disadvantage compared a sniper or Sinx. At least allow 4 man parties in the Monster and Item Trial. PVP trial is another story. This way people will show up with more varied classes instead of everyone just bringing their snipers and /gg. Ragnarok is after all a very team-reliant based MMO.
RE: Team Based ToH - Mara - 11-03-2012
Everyone is warned about the disadvantages of classes in ToH, it's a risk you take for going on a support class knowing full well how a ToH trial goes. This suggestion is like asking the army to make a part of the PE test a team stage because some people just can't climb a wall alone.
What would be the point of a trial if everyone will just go with a devo, heal, and two nukers into a team (or any combination that would own in pvm). Also, asking teams for pvm and then saying pvp to be in singles, totally unfair; might as well make ToH pvp a Team fight too.
RE: Team Based ToH - Monster Tamer Billy - 11-03-2012
But isn't that one of the reasons why the whole Light/Dark story is account-bound, not character? So you can pick your best sweeper and go to the front lines.. o:
Oh, and Snipers flooding your PVP? Monk/Master + Pneuma = WHOOPS I DID IT AGAIN 8D
Ok ok it's not THAT simple, but I pushed the first step in, you guys can figure out the rest ;x
RE:??Team Based ToH - Menace651 - 11-03-2012
Mara Wrote:Everyone is warned about the disadvantages of classes in ToH, it's a risk you take for going on a support class knowing full well how a ToH trial goes.??This suggestion is like asking the army to make a part of the PE test a team stage because some people just can't climb a wall alone.
What would be the point of a trial if everyone will just go with a devo, heal, and two nukers into a team (or any combination that would own in pvm).??Also, asking teams for pvm and then saying pvp to be in singles, totally unfair; might as well make ToH pvp a Team fight too.
Comparing a online RPG to the Army is just lame and baseless. RPG's are supposed be balanced and playable. Real life Army training isn't.
I would also rather see a ToH with more varied cooky-cutter parties like a , heal, lure, wiz, bragi instead of a bunch of do-the-same-thing Snipers.
Bottom line, ToH is unbalanced and lame. There is nothing fun or enjoyable about it. People just show up with their powerhouse solo characters to get the ToH wings. The point of Ragnarok is to create characters that support each other in parties not characters that can solo through high-end monsters. I think GM's can do a better job of balancing ToH if they wanted to.
RE: ??Team Based ToH - Mara - 11-03-2012
Menace651 Wrote:Comparing a online RPG to the Army is just lame and baseless. RPG's are supposed be balanced and playable. Real life Army training isn't.
I would also rather see a ToH with more varied cooky-cutter parties like a , heal, lure, wiz, bragi instead of a bunch of do-the-same-thing Snipers.
Bottom line, ToH is unbalanced and lame. There is nothing fun or enjoyable about it. People just show up with their powerhouse solo characters to get the ToH wings. The point of Ragnarok is to create characters that support each other in parties not characters that can solo through high-end monsters. I think GM's can do a better job of balancing ToH if they wanted to.
All I read is "This sucks, I can't score enough points on my HP in ToH, and I don't want to play an offensive job!" which leads to "I want a party in ToH so I can mooch off a killer!".??ToH has gives lots of pity points to support classes and classes that just can't solo.??The event is a "Trail" for a reason, it puts one individual to the test, and it's obvious that not all classes are meant for it.
Name me one RPG that is COMPLETELY balanced in every single event/game mode/etc.??There are VARIOUS options to ToH other than sniper (it's just the easiest to use), you could easily go on a bolter prof, WS, creator, Sinx, Soul Linker, LK, Paladin, there are lots of options, even Ninja, GS, Champ and Stalker can do well.??RO is not a fair game, it's never been, and if you really want to go in with your support job, then modify your tactic; Make a battle HP, put a bit more VIT on your HW, try an aspd Star Glad, or pick up a Clown/Gypsy and try it.
Comparing Trial of Heroes with a PT test (physical fitness test) is completely reasonable, since that's what the Trials are in my honest opinion.??Using all your wits and resources to beat what ever they throw at you, if you can't manage to score enough on your own, then I'm sorry to say, you're just doing it wrong.
RE: Team Based ToH - Menace651 - 11-03-2012
True, RO is far from balanced but all I'm pointing out is that GM's should at make an attempt to balance out ToH more. Being able to party in ToH is just a suggestion. They could come up with different trials for different classes or find other ways to balance it. Asking a Wizard to go up against a ranged monster or a Priest to kill a holy monster to collect its items is just not possible.
And I don't mind playing offensive classes. I can waltz into every ToH with my Sniper and earn points but that gets dull and repetitive. I want to play and have a fighting chance with other classes. The ToH mass PVP ends up being nothing but mostly snipers. They might as well just rename it Trial of Snipers. Bringing some balance to the other classes might make people want to bring more varied classes to ToH.
RE: Team Based ToH - Child of Bodom - 11-04-2012
Apparently ya'll never tried LK in ToH. LK>Sniper at pvm :D. Also usually WS does better to. Sinx works well to if u got the edp.
RE: Team Based ToH - The Legendary Joe - 11-04-2012
Priest in ToH is indeed tough.??Assuming you're FS or a tanker build, all you can pretty much do is Run in the monster trials (don't bother killing anything, just run like hell) and try to stall out your opponents in the PVP trials.
You need 70 total points to get wings/gears from ToH.
Running and making it to the end of all of the monster trials = 25 Points
Ties in all of the PVP trials = 25 Points
that's 50 points right there.
Trivia = Your intellect will save you here.??You need 4 correct answers for a guaranteed Wing/Gear prize (not counting handicap points). 25 Points max.
Mass battle= Shouldn't rely on this,??10 points or nothing
Bonus points = Priest gets 15 points,??High priest gets 10.
So theoretically you only really need to get 2 questions right as a high priest in trivia, providing you lived through everything before hand.
It's a test of skills. As a support or tanker build you should be able to live through anything the monster trial can throw at you. In PVP,??you have to actually use your skills. Debuff??(lex divina and Decrease agi) the opponent, keep yourself healed and buffed. Safetywall, Pneuma. maybe if you're feeling ballsy, you could try holy lighting them, but they can outpot that easily (which is still good, they'd have less items to use in future battles). Basalica can also be used, but only lvl 3 (30 seconds of relaxation, anymore and you'd get disqualified).
Against tougher opponents,??you might actually have to use??potions to keep your SP up and out heal their damage, (soul burn/ Pressure can be annoying, as can magic users with marduk) but most priests I know of don't bring anything outside of green potions and gems, because they can heal themselves and their weight limit. Potions spammed can heal more damage faster than the Heal skill, especially if you have respectable vit.
But skills are half of the battle, you also need at least halfway decent gears. at least a Thara frog shield of some sort (valk shield would be best), and a marc armor. Elemental resist garments (raydric is kinda universal for PVM and PVP, but cards like dustiness, jakk or hode could give you an edge if people are using converters, and can help if you're fighting mages). A Long Mace is a good reductive gear for priests and high priests, 10% less ranged damage taken on a weapon, but you have pneuma as well, so I suppose you could use a Staff of recovery or something. It's technically a win for you if you outlast them, or they give up, so more resists and stall tactics you employ, the more likely you are to get what you want.
It's been a while since I've actually done ToH, but I assume people can still offer a draw at the start of the match to save time.
I've seen people??actually get more than this when the GM's threw in undead monsters into the mix, or use unconventional or offensive builds like battle priests, or ME priests.??Holy light and Magnus??is awesome, but nothing beats a mace to the face. Also lvl 3 bolt spells from ALL OF THE ELEMENTAL WINGS.
As for support builds like bragi's,??You could go the same route as the priests, but it'd be tougher.??BUT you still have??stats dumped into the stuff you need most, Dex for damage, and Int for a higher SP pool. Take a bow and double strafe, or stick with your instrument and Arrow vulcan (I'd prefer sticking with a bow due to time constraints, but it is an option). Think of it this way. YOU ARE A HUNTER WITHOUT A FALCON OR TRAPS, AND YOUR HAVE MUCH MORE OF A SP POOL THAN ANY OTHER HUNTER. spam that funky DS.??also Frost joker could help if the situation gets rough.
Now if you compare that to a support build of dancer or gypsy, then I could see your point. None of the useful dances??rely on dex at all. Agi and str for Please don't forget me (slow grace), Int for Service for you, and Luk for Fortune's Kiss.
My main disagreement for parties in item is the same reason I dislike sparks in muspelheim (those can't be traded). In Item trial,??You got to get sets of items for everyone,??and in the party scenario, you gotta argue with everyone on your team??on who's going to get what.Not everything is displayed what people get, and random distribution is annoying. The time it'd take to figure out who gets what??would be better served killing more things or turning things in to the NPC's.