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+--- Thread: Two Questions From the Recent Changelog (/showthread.php?tid=22855)
Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Merellis - 12-06-2012
Just a couple of hopefully simple questions.
1) Gunslinger Elemental Bullets:
I remember us discussing this at a GM meeting and deeming it to be overpowered and unnecessary for Gunslingers. What exactly has changed since that discussion to make the opinion shift from a straight up no to a yes? Can the GM's who made this decision actually bring forth an argument for why this was added?
2) Trial of Heroes Update:
If you have time to update the ToH script, where is the fix on the timers for Monster, Item, Trivia, Rules, PVP and Mass Battle? Are they all still on the GM who talks to the NPC, or are they finally on the NPC where a random disconnect won't screw up everything?
Little transparency from the GM team plox.
RE: Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Former-GM-Chaucer - 12-07-2012
Thank you for your question. Our official answer is-
No comment.
RE:??Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Ellie - 12-07-2012
Edit: Players expressing their concern that something that very much DOES concern and effect them when you have deemed it does not is NOT an attack. ToH breaking will stop effecting players once players stop ToHing...
Not a single insult or accusation was made.
People want to know because they care. They care that their time isn't wasted. They care not to see another GM abused to kingdom come for something he had NO control over.
They do not deserve to be flounced on for showing their concern.
My Original Post:
GM-Chaucer Wrote:As for your second question:
Thank you for your consideration as to the back coding behind events, but even in the most transparent of terms, that has nothing to deal with you or your experience one way or another. I am more than willing to be transparent about facts that revolve around players and how players are effected, however there is no need for the player base to know about how coding has or has not been changed in something that does not matter to them, or change their game play, in any way.
I'm going to step out and call a big load of "NOPE" on this.
Given you are replying to the one person who has had ALL the experience in why that change should be made, I can see why he is incredibly concerned about why it hasn't been fixed.
No GM should go through the sheer amount of shit that he had to that night.
If you guys don't see it as a needed change in with the current ToH changes, then I just don't know what to say. I'd suggest that perhaps you need it to happen to you, but as I said, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
I also know that there is not, in ToH circumstances, a single downside to using an NPC timer instead of a player one.
So why wasn't it done? There is no logical reason that it was not changed, outside of the person doing the changes simply didn't know how to. And Google (or the scripting documentation) is an amazing tool. It's not hard to get, as it is pretty similar to the player timers already in the script.
It also does change general player gameplay. It has a huge chance of wasting a large amount of their time. I'd call that an effect on gameplay. :/
And it's script, ffs. Not code. *shakes everyone*
RE:??Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Draco - 12-07-2012
GM-Chaucer Wrote:As for your second question:
Thank you for your consideration as to the back coding behind events, but even in the most transparent of terms, that has nothing to deal with you or your experience one way or another. I am more than willing to be transparent about facts that revolve around players and how players are effected, however there is no need for the player base to know about how coding has or has not been changed in something that does not matter to them, or change their game play, in any way.
Personally, Chaucer, I don't like to say anything rude to GMs so if it does come off as standoffish well you may take it as such but I will not say I am sorry if you do because I am not trying to be.
1. It is scripting not coding that does that kind of stuff as Ellie had stated.
2. I don't see why the GMs can't tell us on the standing for TOH because it has to do with us. I mean unless players no longer do TOH and are affected by the GMs when they are in fact affected by it. I mean if a GM DCs and TOH gets delayed longer then what are we to do? I mean yea its stated to save about 4 hours of your day for it all but what if the GM just can't connect back on due to something on their side such as a power break.
Iunno that's my thought and worry on that matter. I have no issues with gunslinger bullets just the fact that it is thought the players have no reason to know what has been changed about the server in means of a giant monthly event we all try to do.
RE:??Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Deviluke - 12-07-2012
Well, let's see where to start this...
Can't say I'm not interested in why people seem to be so openly rude lately. You know, first there was Adrilif's run in with AMJ in that other thread, then Icy mocking someone's IGN in main, now this. What is this cute and cuddly little carebear world coming to? Come on guys, get it together! I mean this reply was pretty blunt and downright rude:
GM-Chaucer Wrote:As for your second question:
Thank you for your consideration as to the back coding behind events, but even in the most transparent of terms, that has nothing to deal with you or your experience one way or another. I am more than willing to be transparent about facts that revolve around players and how players are effected, however there is no need for the player base to know about how coding has or has not been changed in something that does not matter to them, or change their game play, in any way.
I mean really? I was online the night that this entire experience happened and it was not pleasant for anyone, GM nor participant, so I don't see how you consider this to be something that doesn't directly affect the player base's game play. Unless you know, maybe I'm missing something here and people actually wanna sit through a ToH nearly six hours long again, especially when they stay up at all hours of the night just to attend. I would love to see you say that the fix isn't necessary after you've been in that position, but maybe it's too much to expect you to think that far in the future. After all, why work on fixing problems that you already have when you can just keep rushing new content and changes down our throats. Best. Logic. Evar.
While we're on the subject of change btw I'd love to know why it seems like all of these changes and new content are being rushed into the server without so much as a simple explanation, let alone any rhyme or reason. I mean can you please start fixing some of the issues already established rather than just distracting us with more stuff, and at least justify all these new things rather than just saying "oh well if the player base flips a table we'll remove it", because if that's really the current policy for how things get implemented I'd love to know why we can't just start jerking the woe castles around like people have been complaining about for so long.
I don't even know what's so great about most of these additions. The new fishing system is downright ridiculous and annoying, it's not harder or more challenging it's just a bigger waste of time to get mutant fish which we already had access to. I'd also love to know why someone with max fishing points prior has to start back at guppies just to get those 5 AMAZING points to be able to go to the new spot and fish for the equivalent of a green pot. I don't understand why these new MVP death announcements were made either, half the point of MVPing IS KEEPING AND SECURING YOUR TIMERS. This is a very slippery slope and as stated in other threads it can, and by the rate things are going, will most likely snowball into other mvps. I mean please by all means let's just all start a thread on hero so we can share all our mvp timers.
Now we're "buffing" Gunslingers? How is this even necessary? It's a known/accepted fact that extended class isn't supposed to be on par with trans classes, nor are they really meant to be in pvp to begin with. I mean you don't see the Soul Linkers getting any buffs, what about ninjas? Can we buff those and have them running rampant in PvP next? Let's just start some vicious cycle of buffing and nerfing the classes beacause clearly this is League of Legends and I wasn't aware. lol
So point blank I really don't think asking for some explanations, backtracking to fix past problems, and maybe even some of those nifty polls (we all remember those woe castle polls that got referenced forever) before changes just get shoved down our throat with the fail-safe being you can just "undo everything" if it is deemed a bad change and the community is about to riot over. Or is this suddenly too much to ask/expect?
TLDR: Just sit there and stare at the pole dancing bunny.
RE: Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Former-GM-Chaucer - 12-07-2012
Moved as this is no longer a question thread, this is a whine/complaint.
RE: Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Merellis - 12-07-2012
Timers breaking on a monthly event that is a major part of the advertising for the server due to a GM having computer issues doesn't concern players in any way? News to me!
As for the Extended Classes being buffed, I'm surprised it's not a more in-depth look into how their skills work and attempting to balance it for Trans Classes. I know I was a part of the Autumn Leaf Cat Card debacle, but I do think that if you're looking to buff a class you may need to do more than just simply toss some items out. Have a look at the stats they get per level, as well as the skills and how they work compared to other Trans Classes and edit the numbers from there.
But that's another issue entirely.
Chaucer, I understand you're looking to answer the questions but the one you gave is effectively a non-answer directed towards me in a way that says "don't ask about things that we don't think concern you." I don't really appreciate the fact that, despite what you already know of that particular issue of ToH, you're attempting to make it a non-issue by reason of "it doesn't effect you players."
It does.
We already saw the chaos of a single DC in Monster Trial, especially given that we had no idea if anything even broke at that exact time. Can you imagine the insanity of Item Trial, which has multiple timers running by the way, if you were to disconnect 10 minutes in?
And I now see that you edited your post, and are calling the responses above me "attacks." Those are not attacks.
Look up January ToH for 2012, look up Usopp and his entire thread long rant against the Item Recovery after that roll-back happened. Those are attacks on a GM, not these stern but fair responses.
And you just edited a players post to remove a screen of your original post.
Oh joy.
Edit: And this was moved, because players have valid concerns towards the non-answer you gave towards ToH?
Someone post me a Picard Face-Palm please, too busy doing so in real life.
Edit2: @Lala: Can I read your post and watch the bunny? :D
Edit3: Did you just edit it again to remove the attacks comment? Huh, you did.
RE: Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Former-GM-Circe - 12-07-2012
GM-Chaucer Wrote:Moved as this is no longer a question thread, this is a whine/complaint.
You know what, screw this.
Allow me to swap to speaking from experience.
The initial concerns have NOT been addressed - the questions are still valid.
The concerns of players are NOT whining.
If you label concerns and requests for clarification from players as "whining" to be hidden (the whining section cannot be viewed unless you're logged in), then something is very, very wrong, and you need to have a damn good think about what the responsibilities of a GM are.
You are here for the community. You run the server for the community.
This also means taking all their concerns and questions into consideration, and taking the time to supply them with answers that don't scoff at said concerns.
They are your number one priority. They are what you are here for.
It does NOT mean you flounce if they disagree with you. It does NOT mean you decide whether or not a change concerns them - if it concerns a feature they use, on the server, it concerns them. You do NOT go editing your posts to try and make it look like you were victimised or attacked from valid concerns brought up by multiple players.
Am I angry?
Hell yes.
The subject of taking players concerns into even basic consideration is one that has come up multiple times in the past few days.
Only Rahice and Forge seem to have taken it seriously. Kudos to them.
RE: Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - Rankin - 12-07-2012
This needs to go back to suggestions/questions.
"Moved as this is no longer a question thread, this is a whine/complaint."
Bullshit.
RE: Two Questions From the Recent Changelog - demishock - 12-07-2012
Ye gods, the things I miss while I'm at work. D:
Rather off-topic now, but can someone fill me in on why the gunslinger bullets are unwanted/overpowered? I ask because I don't PVP, so I was actually really psyched when the elemental bullets happened, because I figure it's going to enhance my enjoyment of playing my GS against monsters to not have to spend scads of zeny on making elemental converters anymore. But I would like to hear the other side of the coin! (Hardeehar! Gunslinger pun! /shot)
As for ToH... that was a horrible day/night/several days afterward for everyone involved, and anything that can possibly be done to prevent it from happening again should be up for consideration, IMO. x__x