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+--- Thread: Clarification: GR in PVM? (/showthread.php?tid=30038)
Clarification: GR in PVM? - GM-Ayu - 09-11-2018
So how does it work?
In heRO, monster's regular attack is a special form of neutral attack such that your regular neutral resistance works against them (like Raydric card), but ghost armor does nothing against them.
Treat a monster's weapon's element to be this special "no element".
When a monster use a skill, they follow player rules for element as well. If the skill uses a weapon's element, then monster will use their element for the skill, which is "no element." If Ifrit uses sonic blow, then it'll be a sonic blow with the element of "no element."
There are some skills that are forced to be certain element, regardless of weapon. Famous examples are magnum break and asura strike. Monsters obey this as well. If they use magnum break, it's always fire. If they use asura strike, it is always neutral.
Some monster skills turn out to be forced neutral as well. Famous one is definitely Earthquake, which is clearly neutral.
Here are physical skills that are also forced elemental:
Stand Off (Neutral)
Selfdestruct (Fire)
Curse Attack (Neutral) [note: for some reason, the other status attacks are not forced elemental]
Blood Drain (Dark)
Dark Blessing/Coma (Dark)
Dark Cross (Dark)
Grand Cross of Darkness (Dark)
Stop (Neutral)
Earthquake (Neutral)
Pulse Strike (Neutral)
Hell's Judgment (Neutral)
Vampire's Gift (Neutral)
Wide Soul Drain (Neutral)
Hell's Dignity (Neutral)
Elemental Breaths and Elemental Attribute Attack are obviously forced to be their respective element.
So what about Spiral Pierce?
Spiral Pierce has a special property that when used by players, it takes the element of their weapon. However, it's forced neutral for monsters.
So when does GR work in PVM?
Anything forced neutral according to skills above, or any player skills (including 3rd class skills) that are forced neutral, will have their damage reduced by GR or any other way to change to ghost elemental armor. GR does nothing against monsters' regular attack, or any other skills.
Ghostring Corollary: Piamette's Esma
Esma is a special magic skill that takes the element of the weapon. Piamette MVP in heRO uses Esma, but her weapon element is "no element" and not neutral. Therefore, raydric garment and other neutral resist does nothing against her Esma. The only way to reduce her Esma's damage is mdef, and racial/size/boss resist.
We may nerf Piamette's INT score to make up for this unintended extra damage from Piamette
RE: Clarification: GR in PVM? - The Roger - 09-11-2018
(09-11-2018, 03:23 AM)GM-Ayu Wrote: In heRO, monster's regular attack is a special form of neutral attack such that your regular neutral resistance works against them (like Raydric card), but ghost armor does nothing against them.
Treat a monster's weapon's element to be this special "no element".
When a monster use a skill, they follow player rules for element as well. If the skill uses a weapon's element, then monster will use their element for the skill, which is "no element." If Ifrit uses sonic blow, then it'll be a sonic blow with the element of "no element."
The GR vs pvm autoattacks was a super early change because GR was really too good. And this is just out of any discussion.
Monsters follows player's rules...
...so they use skills...
...those skills takes weapon's element as their element...
...but monsters cannot have a "weapon"...
...therefore that value for them is just "null", no element, completely void...
...so those skills end up bypassing the elemental resistances the game offers to players.
At the same time, autoattacks are considered "neutral": Raydric affects autoattacks AND forced neutral skills, plus unendowed skills. Deviling and Miming, they does too.
These three instances are imagined to be NEUTRAL, as a floor element, a fundamental element. A standard. The most elementary element.
The element by default.
The original universal necessary fix was on GR towards autoattacks. Its still supposed (by all the rest of the evidences) that it has to affect default-element skills too (in pvm because we're talking about pvm, pvp is just fine: everything works as it should there).
Another example: if me, a player, hits a target while unarmed (no weapon equipped), what would be that attack's element? I believe it'd be Neutral, not "null".
So if i wear Ifrit Rings and barehanded i autocast Sonic Blow, having no weapon will that end up "null" element? I still believe it'd be Neutral.
It obvious theres a gap here.
A skill that takes the weapon's element when theres no weapon, should by default end being Neutral because its the basic element of non-specified-element skills.
Asura IS specifically indicated as Neutral element.
Earthquake IS specifically indicated as that too.
Sonic Blow and Brandish Spear ARENT, so they have to be considered to be the default element. Instead they jump mystically to this "null" element.
As Ayu said elsewhere regarding "monsters autoattacks are Neutral" (with the GR fix to not affect them), its possible to change the attacks's element to something else, for example, fire. But its out of discussion because 100% main-elements reductions are possible, so that would be even more OP than an unfixed GR vs monsters autoattacks.
To conclude, this "null" element its just a gap in the code. Monsters cannot have weapons, hence they have to use non-forced skills with the basic element: Neutral.
Or, think to make for example Ifrit's SB fire element. Its plausible. But it'd be weaker then. Just pack fire resistance to then be immune.
Theres a reason that Neutral resistance cant be packed up to 100% and its really well kept in track to not let it reaching it: because Neutral is the default, most common, element of the Game.
And have logically neutral skills being this magic "null" type, considered everything, is straight unfair.