Downtime Puzzle, again

[RaineViamont]

ok so you send 3 one way 3 another way 2 a different way and yourself the last way,

situation 1, you find morroc, hurray

situation 2, only one group of people come back with people claiming to have found it, again hurray

situation 3, multiple groups of people claim to have found it, oh noes, logic time
ok, if there are 3 people claiming to have found it in a group go that way because there are only 2 possible liars so you cant have 3 say yes without atleast one truth teller(and in this case you would need 2 and the person capable of lying to tell the truth too)
if you dont have three saying yes, go with the group of 2 you sent out, they found it

loophole answer #2: seeing as you are an awesome player, you port to morroc, then walk to the crossroads, takes 1 min and you know which way to go

[RaineViamont]

bah i spent too much time finding a new loophole mace beat me to telling ayu the real answer T_T

[Captain Usopp]

First off I don't think C was the absolute correct answer for the first question, you can have anyone other person be assumed to be the liar and come out with the correct listing.
I can post an example for all cases but the easiest is if G is lieing, if G is lieing then he could have met C and A and Ellies explanation falls apart. With the given information there is no way for the GM's to tell who is lieing without going through the logs.

[Captain Usopp]

Well there is a very easy way to solve the novice one. All you need to do is send all the novices one direction and you walk in a second. You meet back. At least 6 of the novices will tell the truth that they saw it or not, doesn't even matter if the other 2 lie. You will know if you found it or not. And if neither of you found it then its the 3rd path.

[~Mace~]

Sorry Raine =\ maybe i should of afked for longer =P

and Usopp. G is the only one we know is not lying. Since it was stated that they would not say that they met with more ppl than they actually did. so by default he had to have met with one person.

But your right. who is the "liar" is based off which ppl you believe to be true as a starting assumption.

[GM-Ayu]

@captain usopp: question 1 did say, to prove that someone is lying (didn't say, find out who). You just need to prove that an inconsistency exist somewhere.

And Mace got the right answer, though s/he may have worded it 'strangely.' They can all return to the spot to 'report' about morroc instead, and the logic will still work. Raine is slower, but you can use that as the solution to help you understand. Mace, can you please tell me what is your ingame name?



Question 2b: 3 GB (this is a lot easier as it's really similar in logic to question 2)

Suppose that you have a similar scenario with these changes from question 2.

-you have down to 3 novices instead of 8
-you still have 2 potential liars, but the 2 liars will always give the same answer if they go down the same path. The liars are not restricted in terms of how many times they can/have to lie.
-your time limit is extended to 5 minutes
-no teleport/bwing/kafra usage (loopholes)

Propose your new method to arrive in Morroc with these new changes/restrictions instead.

[RaineViamont]

lol i forgot a whole line of logic in mine
if a group of 3 has at least 2 yes, go with the group of 3 unless the group of 2 has 2 yes too
then its go with the group of 2

[Captain Usopp]

Well then my way would still work. Send the 3 novices one direction, you go another. All return. If there are 2 people saying one thing thats the lie. If all 3 agree then the liars are choosing not to lie. And you do the same thing with the other 2 paths. Meet back and you should be able to tell with absolute certainty where morroc is and travel there in the last minute.




Oh and your wrong, Maces way is not 100%. For one he didn't say how he would split the novices but lets say it was 3,3,2. We know the liars can choose to lie or not so lets assume one of the 3's has 2 liars and the group of 2 made it to morroc. One of the liars decides to return and one doesn't. Now it will be impossible to know which path was right. As there are two groups that didn't return fully and if you asked them one could say the truth and other could lie and you couldn't tell the difference. This could all be solved if the player went with the group of 2 and came back but he didn't say that so its not an acceptable answer.

[mahawirasd]

because you don't lie to yourself, you can easily take one path and know whether it's the right one or not.

split the novices to 3 groups (3-3-2) and send them along one path each.

Because you don't make lying to yourself a habit, if your path is the right one then all is well and the novice's answers will show who the liars are (if they do lie).


If your path is the wrong one, then you will get answers from 3 groups.
let's say group 1 (3 ppl) go to path A, while group 2 (3 ppl) go to path B, and group 3 (2 ppl) go to path C.

If group 1 & 2 & 3 all say their path is wrong, then path C is the answer and both ppl in group 3 are liars.
If group 1 & 2 say their path is wrong while group 3 produces mixed answers (yes and no) then path C is the answer and one member of group 3 is a liar while the other liar will remain unknown.

If group 1 says no while group 2 is no no yes and group 3 is no yes, then the yay-sayer of group 2 and the nay-sayer of group 3 is a liar. Path C is the answer.
If group 1 says no while group 2 is yes yes no and group 3 is no yes, then the nay-sayer of group 2 and the yay-sayer of group 3 is a liar. Path B is the answer.

If group 2 says no while group 1 is no no yes and group 3 is no yes, then the yay-sayer of group 1 and the nay-sayer of group 3 is a liar. Path C is the answer.
If group 2 says no while group 1 is yes yes no and group 3 is no yes, then the nay-sayer of group 1 and the yay-sayer of group 3 is a liar. Path B is the answer.

If group 3 says no while group 1 & 2 gives mixed answer then the minority (if there is any) of group 1 & 2 is lying.
If group 3 says no and group 1 says no while group 2 is no no yes then the two nay-sayers in group 2 is lying. Path B is the answer.
If group 3 says no and group 2 says no while group 1 is no no yes then the two nay-sayers in group 1 is lying. Path A is the answer.

If group 1 says no, group 2 says yes, and group 3 says yes then group 3 is made of liars. Path B is the answer.
If group 2 says no, group 1 says yes, and group 3 says yes then group 3 is made of liards. Path A is the answer


The above setting and logic should be foolproof.


-w-

[RaineViamont]

send them out, you too

come back send them out again clockwise from where they were, you now know if the person in front of you is a liar, if he is you found morroc hurray, if not he found it, hurrah, if he didnt find it, then it is in the place counterclockwise to where you started, this assuming you dont find it the first try