WoE Revitalization Poll

[CapitalVoii]

D: NAYYY with the time based woe, it's pretty much self-explanatory. As for the third castle, HEAR HEAR!!!

[Shikari]

The one I'm against the most is the Rewards option (specially the participation one).

Why?: its easy to abuse, here's how (one method)-

Make a rouge/sin (or stalker/sinx) or get a hide clip.
Get blue potions.
Go to prontera castle, enter, go straight north of the warp.
Hide.
Sp gets low, unhide (unless youre a stalker and are in chase walk).
Use pot, hide again.

If you feel like hiding in a corner with an hide clip, go for it. Players know others do this and some will do the wandering hunters to kill them for the pleasure of it.

I'd rather hunt an hour than hide one hour to get stuff, especially if I can make it even more reliable exp-wise and item-wise.

Actually, the corner I'm talking about is rarely if ever checked, its out of sight of the warp, out of the path to the castle and provides 0 strategic advantage whatsoever. I wen afk there once in Chase Walk for 30min, I ran out of sp, skill canceled and by the time i was back my sp was fully healed again. And I doubt people ignore an easy to kill afk target.


Edit: Also a lot of people would rather sit around and get easy rewards instead of working for them. Note the lack of woe guilds due to "catching up"

I'm against the time based one too (as well as the other) for a second reason:

Woe is about War. It's not about 'oh I tried so i get something.

If you win you get the castle along with the rewards of the castle, if you lose you know you need to get better, and hopefully you will do better next time.

So you are saying that a castle left with zero economy has something attractive for a whole WoE rather than the last 5 minutes? I'm not quite sure of this.

2 words: Guild Dungeon

[Corporal]

A) No to participation awards. That doesn't stimulate fighting, it just makes it so people show up and sit in the castle, but it won't make them do anything.

B) De-randomizing chests would give guilds more reason to change which fort they hold. Perhaps split the ingredients for each item into a few castles? Yes, it does include the retro woe caste since it gives more guilds a reason to attack there as well.

C) I forgot to check this, but I'm for opening a 3rd castle. It might make it a little less boring, or it might become more boring. There's only one way to find out~

D) No. This is as good as a participation award, forget that.

E) As Namine said, this is just like PvP with WoE settings. If we wanted that, there's a guild arena.

[Aaronock]

Hum question 1, is it okay to reveal a player as an Ex-GM?

Question 2, isn't Last Man Standing a little bit of a random event for extra prizes? I don't see the reason for option E because of this.

Question 3, am I allowed to make suggestions to other possible things for WoE or guilds in general that are not mentioned in this topic?

Question 4, what are the GM's intentions to attract people to heRO when renewal hits? What will our server have over other ones? Yes, I realize I put another question in this but these things do matter for the future of the server like Nami mentioned. I do not mind if you guys choose to advertise you're plans to stay more retro, but it would be nice to know that's the plan for the future I guess. :o

[GM-Pandora]

People hiding in castle to get participation prize has been discussed by the GM team a lot, as you may guess some of the GMs were of that opinion also. I think it might happen the first few WoEs after we implement this, but not further, people who dislike WoE will stop bothering fast in my opinion, the rewards are to encourage casual WoErs to join on a more steady basis. As someone pointed out, there's only one way to find out!

I see derandomization of chests and a 3rd castle are popular, but I'm doubtful about those 2 alone bringing more people to WoE.

[GM-Azote]

The point is : we want more players for the WoE. De-randomisation, as an exemple, will not get more players into WoEs. It will change the balance and the way it works but it will be very close to statu-quo.

A single new castle, guilds who stands a chance will eventually not strike as hard the existing ones, and one castle will be boring at the point they will be sending defenses to attack another castle. We seen it very often in the past.

Rewards for participating is what has a chance to get casual WoErs into being interested to WoE and players who are borderline on time-reliability opinion.

E) sounds more like a pvp automated event (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) than something that fix the current WoE situation, so while it sounds like a good idea to have a pvp event that actually uses woe rulesets, it doesn't help/"fix" woe though. Just wanted to point that part out...

From the point of view which gets more players into enjoying PvP in general, it will get a bit more participants to regular WoE.

It will also helps the "smaller ones" to become more competitive using PvP to get through it, compared to purely PvM to get wealth.

I'm for all of the ideas except for the first one. I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding it but if that rule comes in place that means abunch of players can walk into a castle cloak and hide around in the first room for the whole WoE and get abunch of prizes for doing nothing.

They will make awesome practice targets.

On the other hand im very happy to see that the GMs are trying to improve the WoE scene, ive waited a long time for this and im glad its finally happening! Great ideas they just need to be worked on.

^_^

[Namine]

I'd rather hunt an hour than hide one hour to get stuff, especially if I can make it even more reliable exp-wise and item-wise.

Tell that to the fishermen and miners. Hiding/fishing/mining are not all that different. You can watch movies as you hide! Thus why it'll need to take more detail to see what's the balance of the rewards before commenting imho.

So you are saying that a castle left with zero economy has something attractive for a whole WoE rather than the last 5 minutes? I'm not quite sure of this.

All depends if the guild in question got the ability to defend for that day, or if they care about the woe rewards. If they can't defend and they know it, why not go on massive econ destruction to lower the amoutn of stuff the current owner will get, and force them to pay for econ. At the same time, if say the guild doesn't care about the treasures cause it's too cheap or too bad compare to their current equips or whatnot, then breaking is probably more fun than 1 hour of pressing SG/MS/Sight/Loki for the sake of doing it.

So it's not all "obviously" beneficial for one approach over another.

From somebody who worked to customize the renewal Nidhoggur monsters, I'm quite surprised by your question.

What does nidhoggur have to do with renewal? Like I said, iro is getitng renewal this week, and they got nidhoggur and new world half a year ago. Only brasilis is the first dungeon that's on the fence for it being a renewal dungeon or not (Iara's HP varies from 68k, 27k or 6k, depending on how that particular official server handles it.) Please, anything from new world and on is NOT renewal. GM ought to know this. Renewal starts off for certainly with El Descartes, which is the next update in line in theory.

The last official non-renewal equip, excluding event hats like necromancer hood and contest hats like chewing pencil and drooping doddler, is the Falcon Blitz which I did try to release last time (but did not, due to sprite error), dropped by Cecil Damon and thus completing the 6 set of new equip for each of the bio mob. The next equip that's not a hat is heavy chrome sword, which is a rune knight and not a lord knight weapon, signifying the beginning of renewal on the next dungeon (brasilis has no new equip, making it even more of a grey area is it renewal or not.)

And it's exactly what you said that the question is worth asking... DO WE WAIT FOR RENEWAL OR NOT? If we are waiting for eA, does that mean we aren't going to get any form of updates except seasonal events until eA finally codes it? Even if eA codes it, are we going to get it anyway? If we aren't going to get renewal period, then what is left in the server for the future in terms of update or is this the end of the road?

Lots of valid questions to ask, with none of them being "obvious answers."

We are not on the edge of renewal mechanics and possibly very far from it. Until eAthena makes it avaible, it won't even be a question. We are not coding renewal by ourselves.

If you read the post... I didn't talk about the tech of getting renewal, but we're on the edge of renewal content in terms of updates. Any future 'default update' will result in say, renewal equips or monsters made for renewal mechanics. That's why, I am sure the server wants to know, are we waiting or not, and if we are waiting, does that mean no update except for seasonal equip and the once in awhile customized quest?


If a member of the GM team is defending certain decisions already, is it safe to assume that GMs already want things to go a certain way but is only asking for approval? If that is the case, can we hear just how exactly do the GMs want things to go? Sounds more like GMs are asking for permission to do something that we aren't entirely sure what it is about, and not so much on a brainstorming activity with the community.

[Shikari]

People hiding in castle to get participation prize has been discussed by the GM team a lot, as you may guess some of the GMs were of that opinion also. I think it might happen the first few WoEs after we implement this, but not further, people who dislike WoE will stop bothering fast in my opinion, the rewards are to encourage casual WoErs to join on a more steady basis. As someone pointed out, there's only one way to find out!

I see derandomization of chests and a 3rd castle are popular, but I'm doubtful about those 2 alone bringing more people to WoE.

Maybe, I can personally say I wouldn't get tired of getting prizes just for afking w/ skillz, but dunno about others.
If in the end people would fight to stay alive and end up deciding to woe per se could work I guess it can be given a try. I don't agree much with it though..

Gankz's idea of the custom eden group quest would be nice to bring new people I'd think, in any case.

[GM-Azote]

I'm against the time based one too (as well as the other) for a second reason:

Woe is about War. It's not about 'oh I tried so i get something.

If you win you get the castle along with the rewards of the castle, if you lose you know you need to get better, and hopefully you will do better next time.

So you are saying that a castle left with zero economy has something attractive for a whole WoE rather than the last 5 minutes? I'm not quite sure of this.

2 words: Guild Dungeon

How is guild dungeons accesses going to bring more action in an empty castle more than the last 5 minutes if there is no economy to back it?

Hum question 1, is it okay to reveal a player as an Ex-GM?

Don't be mistaken. I didn't point out she was a GM or not. We have "test and dev" players who help enhancing the server but are not GMs.

Question 3, am I allowed to make suggestions to other possible things for WoE or guilds in general that are not mentioned in this topic?

Yes you are.

Question 4, what are the GM's intentions to attract people to heRO when renewal hits???What will our server have over other ones???Yes, I realize I put another question in this but these things do matter for the future of the server like Nami mentioned.??I do not mind if you guys choose to advertise you're plans to stay more retro, but it would be nice to know that's the plan for the future I guess. :o

Speaking for the GM team : we have not decided anything about this yet

We are not on the edge of renewal mechanics and possibly very far from it. Until eAthena makes it avaible, it won't even be a question. We are not coding renewal by ourselves.

If you read the post... I didn't talk about the tech of getting renewal, but we're on the edge of renewal content in terms of updates. Any future 'default update' will result in say, renewal equips or monsters made for renewal mechanics. That's why, I am sure the server wants to know, are we waiting or not, and if we are waiting, does that mean no update except for seasonal equip and the once in awhile customized quest?

We didn't wait a SVN to implement Nidhoggur. It got customised and balanced to fit heRO. We can quite expect the same pattern until the renewal is a question. We don't plan on "not-adding" stuff because it's renewal's. Everything can fit heRO when properly balanced.

If a member of the GM team is defending certain decisions already, is it safe to assume that GMs already want things to go a certain way but is only asking for approval? If that is the case, can we hear just how exactly do the GMs want things to go? Sounds more like GMs are asking for permission to do something that we aren't entirely sure what it is about, and not so much on a brainstorming activity with the community.

We have decided that statu-quo (doing nothing) is not enough. We came-up with a lot of options to debate about within the GM team, and picked out 5 of them which we found to be the most interesting into changing things.

[Izael]

Okay, I just skimmed what others have said and I don't think this has been mentioned. If you split castle drops Pront/Alde and Geffen/Payon, you'll just be making one castle drop Brisingamen and the other drop Megingjard. So you aren't going to get guilds changing castles. You'll just get them sitting on the Geffen/Payon castle to get Megs most likely.

If you split it the chests Pront/Geffen and Alde/Payon or Pront/Payon and Alde/Geffen, I believe you'll avoid castle dropping all the components for one god item. Then I can support the deramdomizing of castle drops.