Discuss

[Kadar]

Imagine that SG now did 5 times as much damage.??Wouldn't that be worth waiting five seconds for???You could also use a phen so the cast isn't interrupted.??With slower aspd SW is going to last a lot longer now too.??It sounds like stave crasher will actually be a viable skill as well.??Wouldn't it be interesting if stave crasher became a main attack and big AoE was only for certain situations???You would use stave crasher for single targets, FD and SC for disable, bolts if you know that they are weak to a particular ele, and AoE for large groups.??I think the changes to Wiz make them a much more interesting class.??Rather than just spamming SG at everything they might take some thought to play.

If gravity is taking a serious effort to rebalance the game and even allowing player testing of their new ideas I think they will do a good job. While certain changes may not fit into the way we currently see RO, I think that when all is said and done RO will be a much more balanced game. Not only that but I think as a whole the player base will appreciate the change once they actually get to play it. Another thing to keep in mind is that the changes are not permanent. They are having a beta of the changes for a reason. They want to test things before they are set in stone. If set casting does make wizards completely useless then I have faith they will make the appropriate changes to balance the class.

The more RO becomes dependent on player skill the more I'll want to play.??I'm sick of "I would have won if my status activated" or "my class just isn't good vs your class".

(as a side note... they better make EDP easier to get if they are going to nerf it)

[mahawirasd]

thing is kadar, with 5 sec and phen disabled in WOE, that will seriously change WOE as no one wizard can keep on spamming SG on entrances as before... (now it will prolly take around 2-3 wizards to keep entrances covered)

well i believe each class has their own niche...

so on pvp, etc. just have fun with it and there is no need to whine. If you feel that your class looses to your opponent's then don't pvp with him/her... simple...


-w-

[Frogboy]

see, what everyone is failing to see from what i've read on doddler's forum and in this thread is that int and dex both contribute to cast time reduction, weapon type matk multiplier adds to damage as well as the luck stat and possibly even dex, but i don't remember right now. so given that information you no longer need as much dex to reduce the reducible portion of the cast time, therefore giving you freedom to invest it in to agility for flee, or vit for defense, or even luck to improve flee and defense, though at a much slower rate. then you have levels to consider, if your wizard is a higher level than the person attacking, chances are they won't get hit anyway by the person attacking them.

personally, though i'm still not entirely sure how i feel about the changes being made to game mechanics, i can still see a rather well organized guild being able to hold off attackers from their castle even without a wizard spamming AoE's as it is even possible at present to do such a thing in WoE. Having an SG spamming wizard only makes the job easier for the rest of the guild, but that makes for boring WoEs when no one can get through the precast, besides wizards would do better to lay down a few quags and let the ranged characters do more of the fighting, while allowing the melee'ers to get in range of those that make it past.

making these changes will also give more reason and use for scouts that go out and check to see if enemies are coming, then there's very little wasted in items/time/etc. just spamming skills waiting for someone to come and try to take the castle.

aside from WoE/PvP aspects, there is still Phen cards for PvM leveling, and really one of the easier ways to gain gear and cards now will be to get above 10 levels higher than your enemies, so now they won't be able to hit you, and you won't get any xp, but you'll still get items, and you'll be able to mob a whole lot more, a whole lot faster, as healing won't really be an issue, though i can imagine they'll modify it so that getting good gear from lower end monsters isn't worth it, but there's still cards to get, quite a bit easier in my opinion with the changes they want to make.

[mahawirasd]

lol frogboy, i believe i have mentioned earlier that now builds will not be as extreme as before (more towards hybrids)...

and yeah i agree with your POV on the WOE issue...

well i do hope luk gives better bonuses...


-w-

[Aaronock]

I say this also, give stalkers DUAL WIELDING POWERS in their third class! They might as well since they freaking making shields now lower aspd. My melee rogue is gunna be weird now to play in this new setup, they even said it feels too slow *hopefully they work on that* My gank rogue, similar to how archers rely on bird aspd builds...will kind of suck in this new update. I wonder if battle sages/profs are in the same boat or any build that relies on aspd.

Let's not make RO HAVE to be fully skill dependent to do decent DPS, that would be terribly hard for some builds to get around.

[teOx]

see, what everyone is failing to see from what i've read on doddler's forum and in this thread is that int and dex both contribute to cast time reduction, weapon type matk multiplier adds to damage as well as the luck stat and possibly even dex, but i don't remember right now. so given that information you no longer need as much dex to reduce the reducible portion of the cast time, therefore giving you freedom to invest it in to agility for flee, or vit for defense, or even luck to improve flee and defense, though at a much slower rate. then you have levels to consider, if your wizard is a higher level than the person attacking, chances are they won't get hit anyway by the person attacking them.

no you just failed to read. youre fired again.

[Avalon_Fates]

Fates would just like a way for knights to not suck in high end PvM thanks

[GM-Ayu]

Fates would just like a way for knights to not suck in high end PvM thanks

The entire swordie branch never sucked to begin with in high end PvM, unless you mean high end MvP cause nothing survives a high level skill in high end PvM, leaving you with no choices but to go with bombs and spells, and other long range attacks.

As for Frogboy, we are talking about the irreducible portion of the cast that is making the problem. The fact that it's a straight ratio application for what is the irreducible portion of all spells will not promote changes to skill builds for wizards compare to now. In fact, lowered ASPD for sages just killed off autocast battle sage too since they wear shields and even in this current mechanics, their ASPD is not stellar to begin with. Hope that autocast chances goes up to compensate for this.

Actually I don't think WoE will have problems for official servers. If you cast slower, well for them you always have multiple wizards for one SG to cover another SG's cooldown/charge time so that in the end, there's still always a ton of SG and MS and LoV with quagmire down there. Some linked wizard will still be the one spamming SW left and right. WoE wise, it's just weakening the precast a bit along with weakening the lv 1 SG against the precast type of attack for offensive wizard now.

Sigh same tricks except more redundant really... To live with higher cast time due to the irreducible portion. Whatever we did with 1 VFW, now we just do it with 3 VFW as the stall to wait for the cast. No change to style or how wizard plays, except we now do everything much slower than we used to.

I think stalker's aspd will still be ok. Afterall you have built-in aspd bonuses depending on class now. I'll imagine stalker to be one of those in the high built-in aspd classes.

[Nidsrule]

thing is kadar, with 5 sec and phen disabled in WOE, that will seriously change WOE as no one wizard can keep on spamming SG on entrances as before... (now it will prolly take around 2-3 wizards to keep entrances covered)

Last time I checked it has always taken 2-3 wizards to maintain a solid precast. While it would take more than one wizard to keep SG (or any of the AoE spells) going continuously, it would still be possible to maintain a precast, you would just replace phen with sac pally/sader.

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Reading through the last few pages of posts I see two things that seem to have been overlooked:

1. These changes are in very early stages of beta testing.

Already there have been significant tweaks to the changes made and there is plenty of time remaining for similar such tweaks to be made.

2. These changes have come about due to the planned 3rd Classes.

Try to imagine if Gravity were to implement 3rd classes with ROs current game mechanics (Ignoring the fact that there is no information on the new skills). They intend to raise the level cap to 150 and to cap base stats at 120. Looking at the stats alone, if the current game mechanics were left as is, just about every class could hit insta cast with ease.

Although the effects of leaving the game mechanics unchanged would balance itself out somewhat in a PvP/WoE setting, since all players would benefit from the stat/leve increases, PvM would become a joke. RO would adopt the sort of mechanics that are displayed in mid/high rate servers. I guarantee that would NOT go down well with the people who play officials.

The other issue with keeping things as is, how would the exp tables work out beyond 99? From what I've read, it is speculated that you can change to 3rd class from 99 second class or 99 trans. For both cases, second class and trans class, the experience difference for a character from 97->98 to 98->99 there roughly a 50% increase in base exp needed. If the exp needed followed a similar trend, the grind would be ridiculous. Instead of introducing a different exp table and having people going from a huge grind, having it easy for a few levels at level 1xx and then hitting another grind, Gravity has opted to mod the exp system entirely.

And so this is where the majority of the discussion falls apart. The point of these changes is to shift the spectrum of stat distribution from being centered around a system where the max level ranged up to 99 to the new system where the level is capped at 150. Therein lies the problem with the way Gravity is conducting the beta test. The whole point of revamping the system is to accommodate the 3rd classes and the changes to max level and stat caps. All of the testing so far has been with the current classes and current level/stat caps. If they balance their changes around the current caps, it makes the changes redundant. It also makes it pointless to make judgments of whether the changes are good or bad as the comparison is being made on characters at 2/3 of the max level cap.

Compare the abilities in the current system between a character at level 99 and a character at level 70. I see that as being a similar comparison to level 99 characters and level 150 characters under the new system. While the 99 characters don't compare to the current characters, by the time a character reaches 150, I'd say they will be comparable under the new mechanics to a 99 character under the current game mechanics. You wouldn't expect a level 70 trans char to hit as hard or fast as it's level 99 counterpart. Overall I see it as a shift of focus from trans characters to the 3rd classes and I'm sure you all realized this already.

So before going to extremes and dismissing an entire class as being "useless" under the new mechanics, sit back and wait for Gravity to reveal all of it's changes first. It's going to be a LONG time before we see any of this implemented anyway.

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Fates would just like a way for knights to not suck in high end PvM thanks

If you want to see knights excelling in high end dungeons, look for videos of Doddler leveling his knight/LK in thors or videos of LKs acting as pullers for bio3 parties. Kinda hard to excel at high end PvM if you do nothing but mine/sit in pront. :@

[teOx]

Fates would just like a way for Fates to not suck in high end PvM thanks