heRO SvN Update

[Ardney Wolf]

@Ardney:
(point about BG weap benefit for newer players)

Take the exact reverse: it helps veterans stomp the new players more by cutting 20% of the little defenses that they have. Not saying that you are making false claims, but it's "neutralized" out by the exact opposite, so I don't consider that a pro since it comes with an equal con.

Except it's not at all equal. If some newb walks in with 20 def and 20% of that is cut he's down to 16. Both numbers are crap and wouldn't have saved him from the vets anyway. But take a vet with 60 def and cut 20% and you're removing 3x as much defense. It's a much better chance.

And again, my point was not that BG weaps magically make everyone equal, merely that they can help people to be useful in WoE sooner.

(Point about classes having roles to fill in BG 1)

Except again some class excel in one area but can't exactly take up flexible roles. BG1 still follows the same problem too though at least you got 5 minute natural cooldown against ragging the match. Instead of classifying as killer/support, BG1 got defender/attacker classification generally, and having only one without enough of the other, you still lose due to inferior class distribution. You can say BG1 fixes this by choosing. However, Small pvp community results in people knowing pretty darn well who's who, and now you can go "oh hey x player is 1337 and x is in north team but y player who sucks is in south team, I'm soooo going north."

Well, they are mini War instances, not tea and crumpet parties. Just like in WoE things are not always even due to attendance and guild makeup, BGs are not always going to be even for the same reasons. Just because the teams aren't guaranteed to be evenly matched 100% of the time doesn't mean BGs should not be implemented as is. Besides, after a match ends, the people on the losing team have the opportunity to try to stack with the winners again and this in itself will shake up the teams as space is finite. Additionally, if there are more people available than slots, the team composition is guaranteed to change due to the cooldown. It's a non-issue.

"You're still getting medals"

Now isn't that convenient for contributing to the suicidal approach~

Again, another non-issue. People attempting to get medals are rarely a homogenous group from a single guild. The best way to prevent farming is having other guilds competing to stop you. More often than not, this happens. Even if it isn't organized resistance from a guild, many farming attempts are ruined by random people that actually want to play (or grief ) because farming is boring.

And even if everyone did agree to farm...so what? It's their choice. The weapons are getting onto the server anwyay in short order. They were never meant to be rare which can readily be seen by the mere 100 medal requirement for all BG1 weaps and armor with the medallions being most costly at 500. These aren't MVP cards we're talking about. It's actually supposed to be fairly standard gear. That you have to do a little work to get it does not change that fact.

"(summarized) worked on iRO regardless of worries"

When you have the reasonable large sample, the teams are largely randomized fairly because spots in the 2 rooms fill up fast. Even if say we open up one room, does heRO going to get 20 people filling up at a *fast* rate to stop people from switching teams/organizing suiciders/guild hogging though...? You're demanding just slightly less than 10% of the server to join the game, and to randomize it by filling up fast like iRO can, you'll need an even bigger portion of the server population to join *consistently*.

Let me tell you how it actually played out on Valk when BGs were 1st released... it was slow. Most people didn't get it or weren't aware (yay illiteracy -_-). The matches were played by the same set of 20-30 people that shared a time zone. Once people understood the concept and started putting the word out to their guilds, there was more demand and the matches started filling much faster and the waiting rooms got more crowded. Once general awareness was raised, the BG population would sharply spike after every WoE as people went there to keep their adrenaline going as opposed to the PvP rooms.

My point is this: You only need a handful of people to make BGs work. Look at your WoE attendance and you know for a fact that you have enough people. It's that simple.

Personally, I only see the rush of people coming to try, IF it's GM hosted.

You're looking at it the wrong way.
Look at the way the PvP rooms spike after each WoE. They're not coming because GMs are there to make everything fair and even, they're coming because of the latent adrenaline and the need to geta few more kills in. Now, add in the structured nature of BGs and the added incentive of gear and the attendance will take care of itself. Have a little faith in the population and be willing to risk a laissez-faire approach. You'll be surprised.

@BG equipment release? (in case if this is brought up)

@adjusting BG equip?

I defy you to show me a single BG1 gear that is overpowered when looked at in the context of other BG1 gears being released in the same environment. They do nothing but serve to augment the existing classes specialties. They are not imbalanced. They don't need to be adjusted.

@slotted elemental armor:

no only the water one is the "iffy" one... no one cares about earth, fire is just icing but not gamebreaking. Wind is wizzy hate but wizzy seriously aren't meant for pvp in my opinion (they're a team player, and again I don't think that RO makes any sense outside of GVG/WoE). It's usually not so much weapons, but rather water marc/ED's affect on spells precast turning to crap as if it's not pottable enough. Water marc heavily negates SG (slap on glorious ring and the usual valk shield, and water immunity is obtained), resists MS reasonably well, and LoV is just pitiful even with elemental advantage. You really weaken a spellcaster's role down to "locking people" or just hitting people who aren't adequately equipped.

1st off, unslotted wind is what you're thinking of, not water as it works better against SG than water would. [edit]This statement was actually inaccurate. Water works better against the specific attack (SG) than wind. However, Unfrozen Wind is the superior armor for WoE due to other reasons. This is what I was getting at.

2nd...

So let me get this straight, you're refusing to implement slotted elemental armors because the wizards may not like it??? Who CARES!?! Ghostrings shut down Biochems and Paladins, no one demands they be removed. Pneuma Shuts down Hunters/Snipers, Slingers, and Biochems, no one demands it gets removed! But implement an armor that might force a wizard to use a different attack or rely on their teammates to kill someone (which, I might add EVERY other class has to do from time to time) and we cry foul? I have a bit of an issue with that.

Now, it's certainly not my decision, of course. You guys are free to set things up as you see fit. But I'd seriously ask you to revisit your decision here if that was the reason for choosing to exclude those items as, in my opinion, it's not a very good reason at all.