The Expanded Class Discussion Thread

[GM-Ayu]

Why do people refer to extended classes and trans classes as if they should be on the same level?

I don't think that it's unreasonable for players to expect that when a class is made, it should at least be unique (even if it's overshadowed in efficiency.) What we lack for ninja and gunslinger, is that they are almost exactly identical to an existing class.

Gunslinger is just a mix of hunter path with bard/dancer path without the support. You do long range, you can sort of mob but you got no stats for it. You got a giant single damage attack similar to arrow vulcan, but it's not as good as arrow vulcan (understandably for reasons you mention: they did not have to go through another lv 99 progress.) You have the mines and spheres, similar to hunter's traps but nothing special. You have a few buffs that boost dex and attack speed, and that's also exactly like attention concentrate, and the ASPD part is so minor. The multiple different "branches" of development exist in theory with the different type of guns, but lack of usable moves to really choose or develop from them.

Not only are they lacking in efficiency, they lack even originality.

Ninja isn't as bad as technically they have diverse development with melee and spell casting. Main build is the caster setup, which by then you're a sage without the supportive skills/status skills but got increased survivability. You do single target spells, a few area land elemental effect, and you have a few small AoE that's nowhere near wizard. Melee is more bland as it's just % modifier attacks, sadly coupled with really specific requirements. The attack % modifier, doesn't justify the specific requirements though, so you can't really classify ninja's melee path to be "strong damage with trade-offs" type of approach either. Ranged melee, outclassed by even gunslingers and of course hunters with drawbacks, while being nothing special (ammo isn't even elemental, or status carrying). Ninja melee 'should' be special because almost all of their weapon has innate status or special effects, but sadly most of them can be done by other classes too through carding a 4 slot weapon, and do it even better. Or, the effect isn't significant to worth anything (Hakujin? lol? Maybe lv 7 heal, then we are talking...)

Ninja's unique part is that they do have exclusive style of damage evasion skills. No other spells can block a certain type of attack with definite 100% success except Kaupe (which only last 1 attack), and ninjas can use the appropriate one (in theory) depending on what they are up against. This makes them slightly better than Gunslingers in a development point of view.

Nidsrule already covered why TKM and SL stand far above the others. They are extremely unique in their skills to be map dependent with the power to back it up, or dependent on the target ally's class for different effects in soul link. SL got an elemental changing single target magic, including rare holy and shadow elemental magic, which is again unique. SL's debuff is unique.

Normal Taekwon and ranker have a unique system giving a suitable reward, and I think that Ranker isn't completely outshadowed in PvM, due to the relative ease to stun a lot of the new monster creation (vit 30 or lower almost exclusively), and Ranker got one of the most reliable combos of moves to deal fair damage with stun chances at the same time. Taekwon is mostly lacking in good equipment, which is what keeps them in check (admitted a bit boring as it's easy to complete their equipments arsenal so easy to reach "end of the character" path) to be below trans class but above non-trans. Stance, as much as you may hate it and do everything to be a ranker to get rid of it, is 'unique' in skills to be different from other classes from development point of view. Flying Side Kick remains influencial, and solves the problem of even the trans class in PvM how melee got problems "reaching" the ranged monsters. Nidsrule already covered the PvP aspect.



Extended class of Ninja and Gunslinger are not only overshadowed in power, but even overshadowed in originality of development. Nothing is unique about them. Their problem runs deep down to the core- simply an unplayable class. You can argue that a player do well with these 2 classes too, but I bet that the same user of those 2 classes will do *even better* if that player is playing another class. I don't think that the problems of ninjas and gunsligners is something just making new custom equipment can honestly fix.