Ryxingeir Wrote:having actually fought a blacksmith using two megingjards and a mjolnir (among other weapons) with 99 in all stats and quite possibly unlimited z - while it was certainly a pain in the butt and an inconvenience to fight, it wasn't the end of the world that people seem to be trying to make it
What server? What was their build? no offence but they sound awful unless you had a build that could somehow withstand 11~k dps or more.
Ex: defence is even easier, merchants and carts and in guild kafras (that you can use while cloaked) exist. Only people that can't leave a precast, period, are wizards and clowns and trappers - their use of megs are admittedly dubious =p
Teox: GTB is probably the closest to god item in hax, but it does mean +30% physical damage, y'know? Meanwhile megs don't leave you vulnerable except in long long term survivability (mitigated by server small battles).
Quote:with your rebuttals its basically coming down to opinion on the balance issue.
And that's what needs to be discussed. This isn't flagrant opinion only, we can look at the reality of what'd happen with god items here, because we know so much about what'd happen once one came onto the server. We can predict more or less exactly what'd happen, we know woe, numbers, etc.
So lets' talk about what you've brought up:
Regarding admin rings, you've missed my point. They are clearly broken, that was given. Meanwhile, we don't think skeleton rings are broken - they do nothing. We also don't think ring [1] is broken. Nor vesper core for str, etc etc. Somewhere between ring [1] and admin ring is a point where balance is mutilated. What about a +200 str accessory? +100? +90? The only way to really work it out is to look at the numbers the megs bring out. So you've entirely misunderstood me here.
You also missed my point about each guild getting a god item, I'll expand later.
Regarding server growth, I think that's very important, and it ties nicely to the few things I think are most important to think about. But before I touch on that, even though it might be less true that one person wins fights now, it is still very true. The server scarcely has enough people for most guilds to fill every role every woe. There's so much not being done, it's like seeing half a woe, if that. Battles are still very much won or loss on the merits of a select few, I'd give examples but we've both seen it both hand lots of time even in the last few woes.
So, the points I'm worried about regarding god items:
First of all, how do you feel about the fact that every guild is going to get a god item anyway, and that time is the only variable? That is to say, there is very very little competition. At least 3 guilds on the server look very very likely to just tick tock with the clock and eventually be granted god items. Partly because you can get all the components from one castle, partly because of low population. This means it's not really an accomplishment at all -- not a hard one. It means your guild showed up for woe for X months. Then there's no competition to make the items either - you just hand them in. It's a joke of a task to make god items here, with your time spent playing being the primary variable in deciding when your guild gets a god item. This fundamentally ruins the idea that god items keep the server competitive. I have nothing to be competitive about - why do I need to work hard to beat anyone, to strategise about this and that, just plodding along as the server has been for months and the guilds that've been holding (LW, behe, bamboo, then DD/CDZ on and off in payon) will just accumulate god pieces. What a yawn! Hardly an incentive to keep people trying /hard/ in woe.
Second of all, how do you feel about this granting an advantage that new players can only match by playing in WoE? If some guilds do end up with god items, these new players have to do what we did to get god items, except they have to do it against guilds with god items. This is the only disadvantage where this is the case, and it's a significant one. Gear, levels, all that can be made up for in pvm - but not this. You mentioned that as the server grows it wont be a problem. Would you concede it IS a problem right now?
I'd be all for turning off God item drops until a sufficient number of guilds appeared and hero grew enough to support them. Imagine if we had 1000 players and alliances all busting through 3 castles! My goodness, that'd be very competitive, and god items would be super diluted amongst the population. It'd be hard to say no to the idea at that point! I'm not suggesting anything 'forever', but I'd say that god items are at least currently not appropriate.
Ultimately:
How can you support giving people god items on a small server where they'd have such a significant impact when, due to guild:castle ratio, every decent guild is guaranteed a god item for no work besides occupying the castle they're guaranteed each woe, with commerce determining the rate at which god items appear? I find that question really troubling.
Like pretty much all problems on a low population server, I think the answer to it is 'We need 1000 more players'
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