god items discussion

[Kiaro]

I couldn't help but notice that it's taboo to talk about the current policy on god items, and whenever something is taboo, that means there's probably a big problem with how the taboo is. When people have really good reasons for something, it's not a taboo.

So, I'd like to talk about god items and their impact on the server. Let's talk honestly about them on either side, and see how they impact the server. If you dislike this topic because you think the current policy is fair, then you are misunderstanding the points. If it is a good idea to keep god items as is, then that should be discovered. If not, then not. If it's a good idea, no amount of prodding should be unwelcome. Someone can question me on why I do not keep slaves for as long as they like, because I have excellent reasons. Same should apply here.

So, current policy as I understand it, but I can be corrected:

God item quest is out, but if you get the god components you may simply hand the items to a GM and make the item. Policy was established years ago.

Okay so let's look at the good and bad stuff here:

Gives people a reason to play woe. Without god items, what's the point? This is the absolute strongest reason I can think of for god items. If you flatly removed the items, people could quit on the basis that there is literally no point to playing anymore (besides fun).

God items would make a huge difference, but the difference would not be big enough to warrant removing them, let people have their fun. (I could be conceivably convinced of this, but am not at the moment).

The policy is old and somehow good as a result/we can't change old policies (<anyone seriously forwarding this argument should be ashamed, though).

It doesn't seem to ruin any main server, why is hero any different? (<Hugely fallacious argument though)

So, now that every good reason I could think of is out of the way, how about the bad?

Current system bypasses a huge annoying difficult quest that also forces people to engage in mass pvp in guild dungeons if they want to get rights to the single god item created, making the effort/reward significantly easier. Simply put, there's no competition.

Allowing god items at all allows for serious perversions of game balance. 210 str sinxs spring readily to mind, but less obviously hax brew rates (mjolnir) crazy builds in general (brigs) are also right on the surface. Hero does not have the ability to gank people using god items (who will be pretty famous) with 20 people at a time to bring them down before they've caused too much destruction. The server is so small that one single player can swing the whole difference in woe - one GTB card can guarantee success in breaking a precast, for example. To put it another way, there is not enough players for god items to be 'diluted' enough amongst the population.

Establishes older guilds in ways that new guilds cannot catch up to ever. 99/70 is a pretty easy limitation to catch up on, as is getting some good +7 carded gear, but if 30 players joined hero to make a guild today, and say, behe DD and LW each had one god item, that'd be a restriction and disadvantage they could not overcome in the same way as levels/farmable gear. This repels new players who want to be able to earn an even playing field this side of 2010.

So, I've given what I feel is a decent introduction to god items as I understand them. What I'm interested in hearing isn't two word 'no keep them' or summaries of counter arguments 'they're fair, they don't unbalance'. I'd like a discussion about the why's. Why do we have this policy, why would players play without god items, is there any item so broken people would not accept it as a god item? If admin rings are too good, then where is the line drawn that makes a meg okay? etc etc, there's a lot to talk about here.

I am not blindly following anti-god items camp as some motivation to help my guild, nor am I doing it regardless of evidence, and can be convinced easily by good arguments. So let's discuss two things:

merits of current god item policy
god items and their impact on hero's balance.

Edit: as to avoid stupid petty back and forth arguments with lots of quoting back and forth, I'll be responding every bunch of posts rather than to each individual like a nit picking argument, so sorry if my reply doesn't come for a long while on stuff. I'm genuinely interested on the server's take on these.

Edit edit: My predictions for this topic: the more established a player is, the more pro god items they will be. I predict a lot of people will say the equivalent of 'god items are bad but you can't change the policy because you can't' and the people who are anti-god items will mostly not understand them very well or have very bad knee jerk reasons for doing so.