Make HeRo more sexy

[formerGM-Lassander]

Although I suppose the fee would nicely balance out the potential rewards added to the server for people who actually do the quests.??

Pretty much where I was coming from, figuring out potential rewards led me to the conclusion that the job changer would have to ask something of people.

[Session]

Although I suppose the fee would nicely balance out the potential rewards added to the server for people who actually do the quests.??

Pretty much where I was coming from, figuring out potential rewards led me to the conclusion that the job changer would have to ask something of people.

To expand upon this thought [I really like the last post Azurerogue made!], I have a few things to say/suggest. As for the idea of higher rates, I vote no- its fine as is. The item rate being increased a little to bolster the economy, outside of MVP/rare items, would be nice as well. Make it a wee less grindy as shit for the not-so-good items, slightly more of the decent stuff. Or just customize rates in certain places.

Naturally, the idea of balancing the "payment" to the job changer with whatever reward would be garnished from the job quest is a given. Rather than straight zeny, my idea was to make it a quest of it's own. Something that embodies the feel of the server, and immediately reveals to new players that, "Hey, you might be forced to do this before changing to 1st job, but look at how fun it is and what you gain from doing it!"

Requiring the job quest to change jobs from high to trans would be great, as well, since as Lassander said- it'd give new players plenty of time to see how great the server is. That even with the job quest it can be a fun experience/isn't that difficult, as Adrillf so kindly clarified for everyone.

Now for suggestions:

• Grapes are now purchasable from a certain npc after a custom quest. This would tie into the Juice Making Quest, opening up GJ as a viable low weight (4ea) sp restoration item. [Seriously no need in bothering with holy water + 500z each with the holy man, 1 at a time] http://ratemyserver.net/quest_db.php?typ...&qid=40001
  
• Item developed [Accessory, lower headgear, etc-could be V4P] that would increase potency of juice/fruit items. Galapagos card could now be changed to something different, or become a combo card with this gear/another card.
  
• Tweak/increase spawns in cmd_fild02 OR cmd_fild04, of Galapagos/seals. Make them stronger, add higher exp. Pearls and such are goodish here for money early on in a party setting
  
• Increase spawns in nifl_fild01 and boost exp gain, add a custom drop there that would be incentive [Diablo rings, Wool/Tidals, along those lines] for party hunting. An increase in difficulty could be necessary depending. This particular suggestion would be an alternative to Ice Dungeon and soloing for 6x~high 8x leveling, while making money off of the loot there. Nif_02 could remain as the high level niche leveling spot it can be, with the same changes from nifl_fild01 [dullahan/Gibbet drops, for example]
  
• Incentivize more maps along the lines of the aforementioned, add flavor to the already vanilla experience by not "forcing" people to go to the "best" places just to level or grind cash, as there'd be more and better choices. This is alluring to newer players as well, as it makes the game and economy look more diverse.
  
• Take a few "junk" cards, and put them to good use. Not all of them, and certainly not ones with niche uses. Remove the "good" ones post-customization from OCA, and give the map a reason to be used. Along the lines of our custom monsters like Sapling and Autumn Leaf Cat, giving old things a chance to be new again.
  
• Heroic quests that promote party play among allegiances. I'd like to see more roleplay/story myself, but that might not happen much again. Seems like I missed out on it when I joined years back, sadly enough. Gear drops on maps that align with allegiances could further develop more diverse play.
  
• Special enchant npc for certain headgears, that could be expanded upon as time goes by. I.e. The effectless hats that novices on the server awe over when they drop it, and most become attached to/decide to try to sell only to find out they're worthless. Poring, drops, poporing, wild rose, marine hat, lunatic, drooping leaf cat- those sorts.
  -Poporing hat could drop green herbs when killing poring/plant type monsters, which could then be turned into green potions to overcharge to an npc.
  -Drops hat could drop giftboxes [A la most of our "HeRo Drops" gear] when below level 30-40 or so by x%.
  -Wild Rose hat could slightly increase melee damage on water monsters, and/or give a chance to drop fresh fish just like fish in mouth. Combo+fish in mouth, anyone?
  -Drooping leafcat could cause blind when attacking by a small rate
  So on, so forth.
  

Before it is said, each of these ideas could add some flair and sexy to the server, and could be done in a way that it wouldn't destroy balance. Our server has been alive for as long as it has for good reason. We have a good bit of new content, now- what about refreshing and using the content that is already there?

I have a thousand ideas, I'm an idea guy. The technical/coding side of it isn't my forte, but I know each of these things are possible and not too complicated as I've seen similar ones [not exactly these] on other servers where they not only worked, but worked well. However, those servers were not HeRo, and had their ways. We have ours.

I hope someone actually reads this. plsdontflame

[azurerogue]

I like the overall idea that seems to be driving your suggested changes, but I think a lot of them have potential balance issues (just a gut feeling, I can't offer proof).??One of the biggest problems (and it's the reason I'm sure* item exp rate won't be changed) is that in a server this old if you make too many big changes you risk turning off the current population with no real guarantee that the features will bring in new players.??Any change is a risk, so it's best to work on them in steps.??

The idea of revitalizing old (I mean, really old - not nameless, or thors) maps to be places that people might actually go again would be a fun step, but it would need to be done carefully.??As for changing card effects, that seems extra dangerous as some people actually put seemingly "useless" cards to use in niche / for fun builds and it might be a tad unfair to change them just because most people think they're worthless.

*Not actually sure

[formerGM-Lassander]

That's a lot of suggestions and it seems to be bringing this topic off course a little. Regarding rate changes I'd have to agree with Azurerogue.

[demishock]

Disclaimer: I know nothing about scripting, and I've never played on a server with a job change NPC.

Anyway, it seems to me like if we went too nuts trying to make some sort of quest for a job change NPC, it would completely defeat the purpose of having one (which seems to be "I don't feel like doing a job change quest"). Substituting one quest for another quest doesn't seem like the way to go, IMO.

I kind of like takhara's idea from page 1 about getting to the freebies after doing 3 quests, but I think I'd rather see them alternated - 1 NPC, 1 quest, 1 NPC, 1 quest, etc. so you end up with 6 each per account. I do think new players might be encouraged to stick around if their first/main, at least, didn't require a quest. It gets them in the door easily, and then makes them have to work a bit harder for the next character. Then another break, and then some more effort. But as usual, I have no idea how hard something like that would be to pull off.

As for rate changes... we have a lot of gears that have come out recently that help boost leveling exp... is there any way to create a gear that would increase item drop rates? Preferably against certain types of monsters, same as the exp hats work, so that you're not getting an across-the-board rate increase, and encourages people to collect multiple gears for multiple monster types. Or even coded to certain dungeons. "Increases drop rate of all items in Thors" or something. I don't know if any of this is possible, but it seems to me that if a hat can be scripted so that it "gives X% chance of dropping Y item" then maybe...? /prepares to be told that this is total la-la-land wishful thinking XD;

[Laenaya]

For 1st classes, why not just keep the official quests and possibly add character-bound, low weight and class-specific gears with not-overpowered, yet useful, effects (kind of what some servers do with BG gears or "rental items")? It could be something like these, for example.

To make sure that new players will know about it, you can easily add a few messages to the Welcome Lady NPC. She could also give a little information about custom content to them, either automatically or via a new option in the menu (or just recommend everyone to check the wiki and forums regularly, which is easier and faster lol).

For 2nd classes, add small rewards for chars at job 40~44, a little better at 45~49 and something good only at job 50, to encourage people to work harder and make it be worth the effort.

[azurerogue]

That's sort of like enforcing your values on others. No one who wants a job change NPC will want to do more than click buttons. If you have to then it's basically just an alternative job change NPC. My vote would be for something like this:

First X job changes are free (e.g. use the NPC and you change). Beyond that, you need to either do the quest or do some other extraneous quest that is account bound and gives decent rewards but allows your account continue bypassing job change requirements. Or just let people skip the quest altogether. I still think the best solution (as suggested previously) is to introduce an NPC that CAN bypass job change but to increase the rewards for doing the quests substantially. That way people can get what they want but those that put in the effort get rewarded. Even if this is implemented, 1st job change will basically NEED to be free. Or else it only benefits experienced players.

[Session]

That's a lot of suggestions and it seems to be bringing this topic off course a little. Regarding rate changes I'd have to agree with Azurerogue.

Actually, it is appropriately on base considering the topic is regarding "Make Hero sexier". I made some random suggestions, added details and reasoning, all pertaining to ways to add appeal to the server. Not to mention commenting upon OP's suggestions.

Demishock
Just to pose an example of a typical exploitation of that system, without enough limitation: Make taekwon with no quest, make taekwon with quest, make taekwon...now what? Does it stop requiring quests for taekwon?

Once you've created six taekwon via quests, filling your 6-quest-creations per account quote, can you now make any other class without job quests for free? Does the script in place require quests only on the every-other-character basis if they're of a different class request?

Reason I chose Taekwon, is it is the "easiest" job quest. Go get one level, return to npc, quiz. Boom, you know kay-rah-tay!

Also, I realize the same problem falls with the "First three toons" idea. Its just bound to happen when limitation is shakily balanced with freedom.

Azurerogue
Most ideas when they're first presented when it comes to most video games can have balance issues. The thing is getting the ideas out there so they can be tried out, then selected for refinement and use. I'm certainly not of the thought that a buncha changes at once is a good thing. To the contrary, it'd make the player base feel uncomfortable in their normal home if things suddenly went wonky.

The juice idea is one that could have multiple elements, while remaining rather simple. New custom item, card is rehashed, map is revampified for farming/parties, and the idea of doing this to other maps is tested in a way with no long term downsides.

Possible cons are few, and aren't irreversible or long lasting. Then, the community could become involved with voting out of a GM selected pool [and suggestions towards that pool could be made as well!] of what cards to adapt to different purposes next.

As for the rest of the "trash" card idea, it'd take heavy consideration before changing any around. The thought process behind the juice-master set [Ha ha ha, Galapagos hat, card, and lower headgear! QUACK QUACK ] is that it'd be a fun set to farm for lowbies, and still be useful to mid-higher players. Unlike the full 'ring set, it could be done by someone within a couple to a few weeks of their joining if they so choose. I'm sure GJ would see usefulness in WoE and BG as well, and as aforementioned would become a low-weight but not as good as fish alternative in general.

[Menace651]

I think HeRO already has enough "newbie hand holding" with buddy beanie, free warps, DG, etc. Ask any long time veteran and they will tell you the game is already way too easy than it was before. Players have done fine without job changer or increased rates in the past. It would be redundant and unfair to older players to implement these features now.

[demishock]

Actually... I can only speak for myself, but I'm a veteran player, and I think the idea of changes being "unfair" to veterans is a total crock. Things change. Some things SHOULD change. If we had to work harder for something, good for us! It's over and done with. We also have exclusive/limited/rare items from holidays and fairy auctions that newcomers may never get to have. We also all got to get the Moscovia warp without a quest. We have also formed all sorts of long-term friendships with other players that new folks will have to ingratiate themselves into (or not). And any new character a vet makes will benefit (or suffer) from new changes. So like... it's all well and good to discuss the pros and cons of implementing changes, but I think "it would be unfair to veterans" should be at the very bottom of the list of reasons. :/

/my 2 cents