Fabres RL fears

[Général_Argos]

Imo
The opinion of 1 informed man > the opinion of a thousand idiots
but in democracy
The opinion of 1 informed man < the opinion of a thousand idiots

This is why democracy is doomed to failure.??

[mahawirasd]

reading through what fabre wrote, the main points i feel needs clarifying are:

1. "making us dumb" -> seems like the GOP... seriously, they all seem to have foot-in-mouth disease...

2. ultimate power -> always been a republican goal it seems, they're the ones who are always trigger-happy and they're the ones to gain more from more uneducated population (read: consumers) as the republicans have always been having trysts with big company executives... big oil, big medicine, insurance, big tobacco, you name it, they're in it...

3. greed -> dems have always been the one pushing for more tax so that they can spend more on things like affordable healthcare. The GOP, on the other hand, likes lower taxes so that the big companies can keep even more of their profits and would like insurance premiums to remain high so that the insurance companies can make even more money...

4. I find it hard to believe that the side forbidding the oil spill to be cleaned are the dems when obama totally said that he will kick BP's ass while a GOP senator placated BP /spin;

5. dominate the globe -> who's more trigger-happy again? who has more access to funds again? oh yeah, it was the GOP...

6. global warming:
A. Even if part of it is affected by a natural cycle, please read my previous post and understand how important it is to still adapt/mitigate.
B. Do you seriously believe that all the fossil fuels burned by mankind has not affected the atmosphere? Again, please read my previous post and google things like "thermodynamics", "combustion", "fossil fuels", "albedo", "radiative forcing", and "atmospheric chemistry".
People have studied these things for a long long time before the notion of global warming became popular...
after learning about all that, do you seriously believe that mankind's growth has not had an effect on mother earth?
do you really believe we can just grow to infinity without any consequence?
Do you seriously believe that we can externalize all the environmental damage we do in the name of growth forevermore?
seriously?


@Krim: +1 to the general simplification, but imho there is a lot more to it. There has been many many books about it; Information asymmetry, Tragedy of the commons, The republic, The Underclass, The Dual economies, etc.

The bottom line for me is that it seems mankind is unable to become "free" without externalizing costs. Even the earliest form of democracy (the athenian one) had externalities. They had slaves. By having slaves the athenians are free to frolic in the marketplace and talk about democracy and nation building...

The matrix (the movie), if you deep a bit deeper, could be considered a pseudo-scholarly treatise into philosophical questions such as existence, perception, etc including the externalities of life such as inter-dependency, source of energy, as well as the various intricacies of what life really is - if just more people are willing to take the right pill...

but no, most of us just take things for granted, the easy life, the simple life. A free life where we can just plough through without really thinking and rethinking about what our existence really means... As they said, the unexamined life is not worth living...


-w-

[Firenotes]

@Mahawirasd
Doing my own research you do have some very valid points on global warming, although the fact that it is happening (on a smaller scale than is reported) and our government is using it as a scare tactic or a reason to take our money (what little we have) so that the banks can prosper even more than they already have. I just want to say that when we pay carbon tax none of it will go where it is needed or intended for. Those spys we found, the oil slick, the mexican drug cartel, the afgan war, are all disasters pushed onto us by our leaders to push legislative through without us objecting to it. I would be surprised if we didnt have anything to do with north/south korea issues atm. The fact that these issues are legit or have scientific proof is irrelevent. What is relevent is the fact we are getting steamrolled into a police state and our freedoms are being systematically taken away and restricted. This is not what our founding fathers stood for when our country was formed.

Why won't out government let others help in the gulf? Why won't our government stop the *dangerous mexicans from taking over our cities? Why is obama trying to put someone who has no judge experience and an anti ammendment agenda into the supreme court? Why are americans just rolling over and letting this happen?

The banking institutes have bankrupt many countries before this. It's just math. You got no money? We will make it for you, and loan it to you with interest. Your government has no money? Here take this and owe us more later. In the meantime how about we crash the stockmarket so you cant pay us back. Then ask for money to help jumpstart the economy. After they got the money, nothing.

In closing I want an audit done on the federal reserve bank. And at the very least a criminal investigation into our government. I think thats reasonable. If information comes my way that what I believe is false then I have no choice than to re-evaluate my views.

*Dangerous mexicans means the ones with automatic machine guns threatening our police force and killing innocent people.

Just so you don't think I hate everything about our government, because I don't, Here is a somewhat uplifting article Iv'e read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/01/us/pol...obama.html

[mahawirasd]

@firenotes:
i most certainly do not possess the best knowledge about american politics, but just looking at the poverty gap, big businesses, and the vested interests, wouldn't you agree that the GOP has always been the ones placating the big businesses and bankers?

my bachelors was in environmental engineering. I learned of EPA standards there. And from there i learned how big businesses and GOP lobbies paid off the EPA to not publish their reports (from water pollution to landfill standards). The most prominent was Bush Jr's national heritage site betrayal where he allowed big mining to mine in and around unique areas in national parks etc.

I'm sorry but i'm really finding it hard to believe the GOP's forked tongues...


-w-

[Kari Nogashi]

honestly mahawirasd you had me all the way up to your matrix the movie refrence.... that was not to educate....it simply was to make money as a matter a fact it wasn't even in the name of art. it was to make money. three things that any american knows is that A. the country was founded by a bunch of white radicals with serious fears of anyone with skin pigment. _B. USA <3 cheeseburgers and C we are the laziest most money hungry people in the world. anything we do publish or even invent is for money.

[Landon]

Kari quit following sterotypes.

[mahawirasd]

look at the message, not the messenger/media. A good insight is a good insight regardless of who said it or through what media it was conveyed.

if we want to go as far as talking about bio-determinism we can probably get to the bottom about how the economic systems we have utilized will always lead us to ruin and how the human race -probably/hopefully- is now ready for steady-state economics...

would probably take a global reawakening and/or enlightenment, but it's hopefully never too late to start


-w-

PS: inb4 glenn beck, faux news, etc: http://news.yahoo.com/comics/tom-toles#i...tt20100623

[mahawirasd]

Murdoch, Master of Mischieve and Madness...


and one for shits and giggles:



-w-