Make WoE more of a battle.

[Ellie]

DoE+4srs+Behe+KoJ = 4

4x5 = 20

And we're suddenly assuming in all this that Retro won't exist any more to get that 20 count, too.


Edit:
Screw it. Why the hell are we even still arguing this?
It's a silly idea and I'd be surprised if the GMs ever did it.

[Merellis]

What's stopping a big guild from leaving a strong force at their main Castle and sending out a force of breakers, or a few 2 man team of highly geared/leveled characters from storming every other castle on the map and breaking them while the weak 2-3 man casual guild tries to stop them and fails miserably?

Can you stop Behe/DoE/KoJ/4srs from doing this? Why wouldn't they send out these teams to just systematically take down every castle during the last five minutes?

Not like a small 2-3 man guild of casual players is going to live past a EDP Sonic Blow, much less break the Emperium before WoE ends if they break it in the last few minutes.

To do that, they would need levels, gear, a Creator to make potions, and a clear idea of what classes they need to hold their castle and break it fast enough if the castle does fall.

That sound like a 2-3 man guild that can level a Creator/Hwiz/SinX/Clown/Champion/SuperNovice/Sniper/Gypsy/HighPriest/Stalker/Whitesmith?

Yes, a 2-3 man guild is going to have all they need to destroy any intruder who comes in, as long as they announce it early enough for them to relog to 3 classes they need to kill a geared SinX who uses concentrated whites.

Edit: And decides to cloak his way through, but the defending guild can just use their slotted mids with maya purple cards!

Y'know, when they make a character to farm them.

[Aaronock]

Jeez guys, you make me hate this topic now cause every post nearly the past two pages was its own freaking essay. >

I'm cool with walls of text but you've barred me from understanding the importance of the topic at hand with your barrage of words!

Now for funsies, let's relate this to how people probably feel in WoE! Some guilds are like books that are too big and intimidating to read, while new guilds are like an open picture book.

But seriously, I doubt you can get much new blood into this server. Talk to me when we actually are going to have some of those updates for custom quests and dungeons that have been on the table for YEARS now. If anything, its the fact there's nothing to do that drives some of the playerbase away. ;(

[Gojira]

Still love how 2 of the 3 book posters are people who haven't woed in over a year. Anyway, can someone produce me a summary for the tl;dr person I am plox. Only post I actually read was kevs cause I saw my name XD

[GM-Pandora]

People who are remotely motivated to WoE already do WoE. Of the current 4 guilds that we consider woe-active, ALL of them are recruiting and at least some (if not also all) of them will take you in even if you are a low level ungeared player. At least 2 of those guild also don't require to be 100% woe active and starting a new guild is also always a possibility even if it's not a walk in the park (but who says it has to be?), so imo woe is accessible to anyone, be they casual or hardcore about it.

We've added small rewards for everyone who just shows up, even if they don't land a castle at the end and get chests, they can still get their hands on consumables, bg keys and gears (just shield for now, but more will be added).

I think we're already catering as best as we can to those eventual "potential woe players" and now it's up to them to do their part. Aside from extra participation rewards, further changes, if any, are likely to be directed at the existing woers.

Having played before on 20-castles servers I can say that at least in those cases the scenario did not occur as Adrillf expects it to. Lowering the castle amount to 1 is also a no go. 2 to 4 castles is the middle ground to cater to both the dominant guild(s) and aspiring guild(s), it's never gonna be perfect but for now we'll remain at 3. Playing the yoyo-castle amount has never made the woe community happy.

Thank you everyone for your input and for staying polite for the most part. @Landon if you cannot express yourself properly and respect the forum rules please refrain from posting.

[Adrillf]

Thank you Pandora for your response, I will be using it every time people try to change something about WoE.

We have a self proclaimed imperfect system that's unwilling to change, so get use to it.

2-4 castles are the only option so let's start bickering now on which of those 3 options is the best. To try something new, even if it was 5 castles, is not an option, so don't worry about it.

Good to know where the GM's stand.

Edit:
As promised, if the goal is compression and keeping a small number of castles open, I now agree with closing down one castle and reducing. As much as I love everything that mahawirasd wrote in his post just a few above this one, and as much as I agree with him, that's no longer an option. Sorry kids, we're getting the same thing we've always had, so might as well run with it.

[Lena]

1. Open 20 Castles/Close all but one
2. Start WoE
3. Convince newbies to join
4. ????
5. PROFIT!!

[mahawirasd]

<3 Adrillf

@Panda
in all honesty i do believe that HeRO IS really baby-ing the woe-going crowd. But there is still a difference in feeling that you can hang around castles just for fun or having to join one of the big boys if you don't wanna keep banging your head against a brick wall. The way i see it, as people and their guilds grow, they will tend to converge into the "select" castles thus allowing for even newer guilds to start climbing the woe scene through the "lesser" castles. This way will still be more organic than facing them with a brick wall with only four gates from the get-go.
Furthermore, (at least to me) the point in talking out these suggestions is to find possible ways to "relaunch" the server to entice new people without actually relaunching the server (wipes, etc).
I personally don't think we would ever need to do this, but if people keep saying things like "the server will die without the woe pop and it's the social guilds' fault", then perhaps they should realize that woe being the way it is is their own fault for wanting to farm god item ingredients effectively.

@inasad and merellis:
the 4 big guilds that you name will probably focus more on those few "select" castles with the god item ingredients that they want (please refer to "the next step" i refer to when people are tired of wools and obs). This concentration by the "big guilds" will mean that other "lesser" castles will still be accessible to newbies.
and sure, you could break up into 3-4 man parties to hold all 20, but then the other big guilds will converge on you. Then everyone has to rethink their strategy again to adapt to the various threats coming from all sides. It's about a more fluid (and constant) challenge in calculating your benefit cost ratio; "do i relog as my sinX for that gefx castle that that noob guild is holding or should i go try to swipe payx while that other big guild is busy sieging my prontx castle that i am sure my guild can hold even when big guild B is sending 75% of their forces or perhaps i should help my friends def that castle... hmm..."

@Gojira
We care about the server. That is why we actually spend time trying to talk out possible ways to make the server "better" for all.
Again, I have nothing to gain from this particular change (if it ever happens), but i still care enough to try and find ways to make the server more "fun" for others even though i myself derive no pleasure from it.
If anything, said 4 big guilds could try out my suggestion and break themselves into several raiding parties to try and find out which one is superior to prove the aforementioned claim that they are not reward-driven.

TL/DR: i know it's moot, but opening all the castles and/or changing the woe times could be considered significant enough for a "relaunch" without actually relaunching the server. CMIIW, but relaunches (especially ones that are well-advertised) seem to be able to draw crowds.


W

[azurerogue]

Often times when I've tried something in the past and it hasn't worked, I just try it again and hope it goes better the next time. Trying new things just seems silly.

\sarcasm

[Aaronock]

Honestly I've played 20 castle servers before...back on a 1k+ pop server...
Fun stuff, but yah, we're not big enough for that many, but who knows, I'm not totally against opening more castles at all, just don't think all of them should be open. :3