Suggestion regarding Super Novice

[Little Sara]

I have a suggestion to make, though its a bit touchy.

Super Novice could get a quest to preserve its +10 all stats bonus for no death - this would only work in the following conditions:

-Never die before 99/99
-Do quest at 99/99
-Quest is hard/long, but not the kind to kill you on purpose, more like getting hard-to-get items even harder than Zodiac/Avian (not woe castle drops, that's pushing it).
-Bonus does not work at all in any pvp area or woe.
-Bonus works for TOH PVE parts, but NOT PVP.

Please post opinions on if the requirements are hard enough? And since it doesn't work, at all, in pvp/woe, I think it limits the problem of people doing it solely for the insta-cast vs players.

[azurerogue]

I'm not actually sure this is possible. I think the +10 stats w/ no deaths is a global variable based on your death counter. It's either in effect or it isn't. I don't *think* you can base it off of what map you are in. I also don't think there's a way to preserve the death count for any character at 0 (aside from plain not dying).

Yes, there is a global variable for EVERY character that keeps track of how many times you've died (I'd love it if that information were made available to players via NPC, btw, I think it would be entertaining). The SN link has a chance to reset it (iirc), but I don't think there's a feasible way to "freeze" that variable (could be wrong).

Just my two cents.

[Little Sara]

It would probably involve some kind of "custom coding", but I think it would be doable.

As for pvp/woe, each of those have a "flag". For example, Assassin and Rogue can't use Backslide in woe, and no pushback, Assumptio is weaker, etc. It would just put the bonus to "inactive" temporarily. And for pvp, the map itself also has a flag. For duels it couldn't be implemented, but well, its a duel.

I'm supposing TOH pvp is on a sort of pvp map.

[Motenai_Ronin]

Does life insurance/token of zeigfried nullify the death counter from going up?

Conceivably provide SN's with an infinite amount after they reach 99/99 (the exp thing wouldn't be an issue cause they have no exp to gain/lose) and it wouldn't be broken because they have already done the work getting to 99/99

[Cheesecake]

I honestly think this would be broken. Insta would be perminantly reachable with little to no effort. Regardless of how difficult it is, from the experience of being an SN, a ridiculous amount of time watching your 1,000 HP should not grant you a forever bonus. If you die, Get someone to soul link you. Stay out of PVP. If you can't handle SN without the bonus then don't make one.

Making perminant bonuses would be a bad idea. Regardless of the difficulty of what you need to do to get it.

[Little Sara]

Cheesecake Wrote:I honestly think this would be broken. Insta would be perminantly reachable with little to no effort. Regardless of how difficult it is, from the experience of being an SN, a ridiculous amount of time watching your 1,000 HP should not grant you a forever bonus. If you die, Get someone to soul link you. Stay out of PVP. If you can't handle SN without the bonus then don't make one.

Making perminant bonuses would be a bad idea. Regardless of the difficulty of what you need to do to get it.

It wouldn't work in pvp, regardless of how you earned it. So it would be even less broken than it is now.

As of now you can earn it and use it in pvp, although you'll lose it dying once. With my idea, the bonus would be disabled in pvp, woe, gvg, anything where the map is turned pvp. Including TOH free for all (the bonus 5th event) and pvp event (where you have to do 5 matches).

The bonus, in other words, would only be useful in PVE, perhaps to MVP, but not necessarily (as even if you don't lose the bonus, getting one-shot every few seconds gets tiresome).

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Also, half the stats are useless depending on your build.

Going melee? Your INT+10 is useless. Going caster? Your STR+10 is useless. Unless you go crit build, your LUK+10 is useless. Unless you go caster build, your DEX+10 isn't that useful (since you don't use bows). Your VIT+10 is useless in every instance. At best it gives you a slight protection to statuses. Your AGI+10 is only useful as melee build also. 10 agi won't reduce your cast delay significantly, not enough to actually matter.

And your job bonus is insignificant at +5 each stat. You'd say TK only has +6 STR +6 DEX and +6 AGI, well, those are the "right stats" (all melee oriented) with self-endows and kick-spamming as well as the highest HP AND SP multiplier when Ranker, its well compensated.

You got more HP than a Lord Knight for the same VIT and more SP than a High Wizard, for the same INT.

In comparison, the best HP a Super Novice can hope for is around 4,000 HP, which a perma first class 99 could rival. And maybe 210 SP (with 100 INT but without gear), which any first class 99 could beat with no INT.

The base HP formula extremely disadvantages Novice and Super Novice. The only reason Super Novice can actually compete at all with first class, is that they have +2000 HP bonus for getting to 99.

Here is the formula:

[([(35 + BaseLevel*HPMultiplier + SigmaOfBaseLevel*HPFactor)*(1 + VIT/100)]+HPAdditions)*ItemHPMultipliers]

HP Multiplier for Novice/Super Novice is 5, it's the same for most classes also. Crusader has 7, Monk has 6.5 and Bard/Dancer have 3. All others have 5 (not sure for extended ones).

HP Factor for Novice/Super Novice is 0. For Assassin, Crusader it's 1.1. For Knight it's 1.5. For a Taekwon non-Ranker it's 0.66 (Ranker is 2.0). Wizard has the lowest of all second classes, with 0.55.

Note that HP Factor is what makes HP go up exponentially. Why lv 150 would be 2x the HP of lv 99 for the same VIT, for example.

This is because Sigma of Base Level counts 2+3+4+5...up to base level.

So every time I, say Assassin, level up, I get 5 from HP Multiplier and Base Level amount *1.1 from HP Factor.

An example:
I'm level 86 Assassin. I reach level 87. I have 10+2 VIT. I have no HP+ or HP+% cards.

I gain +5 and +87 added together than multiplied *1.1*1.12, so I get 113 HP just for that level.

I'm level 90 Super Novice, I reach level 91. I have 10+5 VIT. I have no HP+ or HP+ cards.

I gain +5 and +0 added together and then multiplier only by VIT, or by 1.15, so I get 5.75 HP (rounded down to 5) just for that level.

Super Novice and Novice also have the lowest SP Factor, but SP isn't exponential. They get 1 SP/level. Thief gets 2, Assassin and Hunter get 4. Wizard gets 9, Priest gets 8, Sage gets 7. Multiplied by INT%, at best doubled usually, or 2.2x with 120 INT.

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It would also be an after-the-fact, you'll have to do the gruesome trek to 99 first, without ever dying. You get the bonus at job 70, but ever wary of lag spikes, disconnections and MVPs or one-shotting mobs spawning on you. At 99/99, provided you do the very hard quest, you get rewarded with peace of mind, which you earned.

Most people currently either never risk that bonus by doing anything where risk is even a possibility (which limits the usefulness of a SN) or lose the bonus without thinking about it, because they think "why bother".

No one in their right mind would Soul Link you thousands and thousands of times to get you back the bonus, unless you paid them a couple millions, each time...and people would get tired of the skill-spamming too.

By limiting its usefulness strictly to PVE, it limits the problems with class balance. You won't instant one-shot other classes unless you can without the bonus (which is possible but harder), but if you only/mostly PVE you will keep your hard-earned work.

[Cheesecake]

I .. got lost. Did anyone else get lost in the above post? I'l just agree, and shut up @_@.

[Aaronock]

I didn't care to read the big wall of text, I am surprised +5 to all stats with SN Link and stuff to reset death counter wasn't enough...x-x

[Kadar]

All stats are useful for a SN.??Agi doesn't reduce delay in any way when it comes to magic.??You don't deserve the bonus if you're not willing to maintain it.??Just because it's PVE only doesn't make it balanced.??SN are a novelty class but that doesn't make them weak and useless.??This isn't some sort of necessary balance change that needs to happen to make SN playable.??Gravity even made a way for every SN to get it through the link.??It's not worth the GMs time.??Granted they even know how.??That's pretty much that.

Give us a REASON for why we NEED this.

[GM-Ayu]

Agi does help in skill delay a *slight* bit but it's only applicable to high rate situation where you can really spare the agi to handle cast animation delay. In a low rate, take care of your dex and int, and that's enough on your plate as it is.