Guild Discussion 1-Guild Leadership +Goals

[Aaronock]

Alright, since Azul is a party pooper (its okay though, I still love you) I decided it would be neat to start a series of topics discussing guilds. First off a things I want to lay out about this topic. These will apply in any future discussions I may or may not do in this line of topics.

1. This is a discussion open to everyone that has an opinion about the issues I bring to the topic at hand. Don't pull any crap about "they are a woe'r/ non-woe'r so their opinion is stupid/biased/etc." I will report any posts that happen to do this.

2. Don't be trying to troll me, I could totally lay a smackdown on you for trying, but hey, I'll just use the report button again.

3. Yes, I do feel like a cool kid when I am allowed to use the report post button on forums!

Topic of discussion today will revolve around guilds and their leadership, and what types of guilds are made. I wanted to ask a few questions, you answer how you see fit following the rules above.

• Can anyone you feel lead a guild?
• What kind of people should be leaders for a guild?
• Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.
• What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?
• What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?
• Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?
• Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?
  

We've been bringing up topics of discussion about guilds casually in other topics, hopefully I'll be able to bring in new topics of discussion for guilds at some point, but I figured this would be a fun one to start with. I'll answer with my opinions later on, I want to not skew things from the get go. The best I can hope for from this topic is a better understanding of what makes some guilds more successful than others.

[Matsu]

Can anyone you feel lead a guild?
Aslong as they think they could lead a guild they can.

What kind of people should be leaders for a guild?
As a guildleader myself, and knowing where things go wrong in my guild I can say communication is priority.

Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.

Setting up goals is always a good start of a guild. Since why would you create a guild if you don't want to accomplish something. People have different opinions about what is a good goal ofcourse. Wether its WoE/PvE or Social.

What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?
Totally devoted to WoE. The members that join do know RO pretty well already most of the time. Most of the time I see them as the people who want to show they are strong by killing other people. And often the members have fun killing others

What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?
"A do whatever you like aslong you talk and be active - guild"

Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?
Everyone has their own goals. Walking is normal for the one, but walking for someone who lost two legs its totally different. (weird example though xD I hope you get what I mean)

Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?

A guild only ends when all members loses faith in the guild and have no point staying. If passing the torch solves that problem then it shouldnt matter.

Also like I've said multiple times, I see a guild as a group of people who hang with eachother to accomplish something (even if that is randomly sex talk in guildchat) A guildleader is just a member aswell.. But for WoE guilds that should be different. They have to have some sort of structure. and Someone (or a group) where the members look up to, and follow him/her because he/she knows more/is better.

Final conclusion: Setting up a guild costs alot of time and dedication. Also setting up the right goal is very important.

(Aesthetic comment: Every guild has to start somewhere.... some start better than others, apparently we have to set our goals straight)

looking forward to other posts o.o;

[Fruityla]

# Can anyone you feel lead a guild?
No. There are people that just don't have the personalities or the charisma to do so.

# What kind of people should be leaders for a guild?
People who respect other people and other guilds. Yes kids, respect is important or your guild and possibly the whole server is going to hate your guts.

A leader also needs to be tough enough to enforce their own rules and not busy trying to be everyone's friend. You're not a leader at all if you're gonna be a doormat. Don't go the extreme opposite direction and be an evil tyrant either :x

Also, treat all of your guild members equally and fairly. Don't only make some follow the rules and let others get away with whatever crap they want.

Oh, and if you plan to lead a guild actually...do the work. Don't hang it all on your officers.

# Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.
o_o If it has no goal what's the point of having it then?

# What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?
The guild's primary focus is WoE. They're also the most likely to do any high end MVPing.

# What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?
The guild doesn't partake in WoE. To me their primary focus is the PVM aspect of the game and/or bringing people together.

These guilds may or may not do any high end MVPing.

# Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?
Overall, no. But there are certain things/places that practically require you to be guilded if you ever hope to go there and get anything from it. So it depends on what you want to do I guess.

# Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?
From a pure observation stand point, guilds die once their leader goes away. I don't think I've ever seen a guild on heRO survive this.

HOWEVER, in a lot of cases someone from the deceased guild will start an entirely new guild and recruit a good number of members from their former guild. :x I suppose that's torch theft.

[Galt]

1. Can anyone you feel lead a guild?
No, not just anyone can lead a guild. You need to be up to the task of leading, inspiring, and helping those under you. If you're not willing to take the time and do your responsibilities as a guild leader, then you shouldn't be one at all.

2. What kind of people should be leaders for a guild?
Obviously, people who have actual experience in real life leading others would be greatly helpful (I used to have a head of accounting in one of the MMOs I used to play as a guild leader. Our guild held solidly through many games for 3 years before he gave the official order himself to disband it), but knowing how to spot, treat, and talk to people, as well as being able to keep calm within chaotic situations in a guild also help. Leaders serve as examples; what they do will reflect upon the majority of people they will have in their guild. ALWAYS. There is no exception to this rule.
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3. Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.
The guild does need to clearly define what the guild is there for. You can't expect to invite in social people with to your WoE guild and then expect them to participate in WoE. It doesn't work like that. Making the guild's objective known to people you recruit will help in communication, and will also draw more people to the guild that share the guild's interest as well (using a blunt example, an MvP/partying guild will naturally attract people that like to MvP/party).

4. What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?
I think of a competitive, knowledgeable, and professional guild that participates in WoE. On the other hand, I think of a bunch of complete and utter asshats with good gears that like to use sarcasm, who repeatedly keep breaking up and forming new guilds due to a fallout in the old one in an endless cycle.

5. What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?
I think of a guild that's there for aiding newer players, a place to talk at, relax, and have fun, whilst doing other things like leveling, farming, or partying. On the other hand, I think of a bunch of random noobs who talk about tasteless bullsh*t on main and tell people to "@main off lol" if it bothers them.

6. Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?
No, but it substantially helps. MMORPGs were not designed for lone wolves; they were designed with the clear fact of interaction with other players in mind, and as such, success and fun can be most commonly found with groups of people and guilds.

7. Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?
So long as the candidates for succession also share the same reasonable qualities as the leader, then the guild still lives. Hand it off to someone radically different, however, and you have no idea how the guild will turn out, or whether or not it will die; and to me, the guild is as good as dead, because in my opinion, it's like handing off the keys to the kingdom to a rock.

[The Legendary Joe]

Can anyone you feel lead a guild?
I've met a few people who were decent leaders and somewhat motivationally inspiring to me.??However for the most part, most people cannot.

What kind of people should be leaders for a guild???
There's a certain amount of responsibility and Maturity that SHOULD come with being a guild leader. They have to be able to make tough choices and follow through on them once they've decided. I know some people are extremely sentimental/loyal towards their dead friends and asshole friends, but??sometimes you just gotta grow some balls and give them the boot.

It'd be nice if a guild leader could inspire loyalty in others.??Or be able to tell someone to do something and actually make them want to do it without resorting to threats and/or bribes. But I suppose that has to do a lot more with the guild's chemsitry more the the guild leader him/herself (I think.)

It'd also help if they were able to see the big picture, plan ahead and make sound, smart decisions when it comes to guild matters.


Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.
I suppose it would help if you had a goal, but if you ever reached that goal, it might hurt as well because hey! You reached your goal, what's keeping your members there with you? Nostalgia and friendship only go so far.

What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?
"*over ventrillo/some other voice chat program not included with your RO package* You lazy ass f***! You get here so and so minutes before??woe and get prepped! You get to stand in one spot??casting over and over and over and over for an hour!?DAMMIT! WHERE THE f*** IS teOx!!?! HE'S SLEEPING AGAIN!? Don't you even think of skipping or bailing or You won't have any rights to??guild treasures and we'llm kick you so you can't use the dungeon! Oh btw, we need you to do high end MVP's, but you won't get any of the loots because our Older guild members are more important than you n00b."

What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?
"Does this silk robe make my butt look fat? Anubis is so freaking hard! lololol real life stuffs lololol Duh-RAMA! I'm quitting??cuz I'll never be 99 Q.Q UNREQUITED INTERNET LOVE! Oka, you're paladin's way too colorful gtfo pls.CUTE HATS! Mining and fishing"

Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?
Do you feel a guild should be boring and a complete and total failure in everything? Of course not. Even if the guild really can't do much right, it's always best if they can have fun doing at least one thing right.

Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?
Guild Morality really suffers if the leader isn't all that active. It's possibly, albeit unlikely that they may continue on in the guild simply because of all the wonderful friends they made there.Passing the torch??is??risky.??No matter who you choose, the guild chemistry will never be the same once the original leader is gone. there's no telling wether it'll be a success or not.

Most cases I've seen, the people from dead guilds leave the said dead guild and remake and inviting all their friends and new people.

[Kari Nogashi]

@can anyone you feel lead a guild. :: no its a basic human imperfection to either have an overinflated self value for no paticular reason or really low self esteem either way these people are not fit to tightly band people together. to find a good medium is hard to do and rare to say the least. and out of this small group is an even smaller group that has the moxy and creativeness to have succeeded in holding a group of radicaly different people together. so in short no but i admire those who can.

[Antimind]

?Can anyone you feel lead a guild?
Absolutely not. Biggest reason why guilds fail is poor to non-existant leadership. Guild leaders need to be fair, make the tough decisions, and say hey this is the way it is step in line. Most people are more inclined to let things slide if they like a person. A leader will put priority on what's best for the guild and put more stock in those who are assets.


?What kind of people should be leaders for a guild?
Most important, someone who doesn't care if you happen to be a friend or relative. Always puts guild interests above personal ties. Also hard to find people who don't play favorites and know what they're doing. A great leader will admit it when they don't know what they're doing and ask for help.


?Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.
Guilds def need a goal. If there are no goals there's nothing to work for. No point in something like that. I tend to think you need to have a goal to give everyone in the guild a common interest too. Not all players in any guild are on even footing. Not all players will be interested in everything a guild may do. Having one common goal gives everyone that one thing to strive for.

?What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?
Depends. I've seen WoE guilds that were completely full of scrubs. Less WoE and more just hey we like to PvP so why not do it. Most of the time WoE guild to me means people who want to be part of a well organized team. People who are willing to high-tier MVP and do whatever it takes to get it done. Serious players plain an simple.


?What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?
Townies for the most part (people who do nothing but sit in town and chat all day). Players that have no real aim and just play for the sake of playing. I checked out several "MVP guilds" on other servers and talked to many people in social guilds. Not a single one of them has ever done any high-tier MVP or anything worth mentioning. Seems kinda pointless to me.


?Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?
No, it's very possible to have fun and be quite successful on your own. Only reason IMO to join a guild is for WoE and high-tier MVP. Things you really can't do on your own.


?Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?
If it's put to a vote and the proper person for the job is selected, a guild can continue to exist without a former leader. If the wrong person is selected for the job a guild can fall apart very quickly. I've seen a few cases firsthand where it wasn't even a leader leaving that caused a guild to break. People causing drama within a guild that weren't curbed quickly brought down more than a few excellent guilds.

[Aaronock]

Okay, my turn to answer and I'll try to bring a few foods for thought that aren't simple checklist questions to the topic now.??Thanks to everyone who has answered so far, you are still free to answer the checklist questions and add your own thoughts!

• Can anyone you feel lead a guild?
  
  -No, just some people don't have the charisma or the ability to work well with teams.
• What kind of people should be leaders for a guild???
  
  -Someone who is able to talk well to people, and follow through on things they say they will do.??This includes rules they want people to follow to how active people need to be.??If you the leader cannot follow through on what you say then you shouldn't be a leader.
• Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.
  
  -There are two types of goals.??There is the big picture goal and the steps you take to get there.??It could be something from "beating the strongest mvp in the game" to "being the most feared guild."??Whatever it is, you hopefully have steps to getting there also.??
• What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?
  
  -Doesn't necessarily have to have the best players, but instead they are people who are interested in fighting against other players and having teamwork involved.??Of course you want to win a castle and be able to defend it as the treasures can be beneficial to your guild.??You probably strive for high end equipments because they are required of you to perform well on the battlefield.??Striving to be the best player you can become is probably also more important to people of these kinds of guilds.??Can hold elitist jerks, but you shouldn't let them ruin your fun anyway. \o/
• What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?
  
  -A guild that probably isn't focused on necessarily getting better at the game, but instead finding people who hold similar interests or beliefs to them.??They try to do things because to them it is "fun" and a part of the gaming experience.??They aren't always trying to become the best at the game, but they can choose this path for their own reasons.??Can hold players also who are "cliquish" and only do things with their small group of friends.??I feel social guilds should be doing better to outreach to the player community and not think like that since they have little reason to. x)
• Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?
  
  -Most people at least join a guild I think in the end to have people to talk to if for no other reason, even if you are a solo player.??Not really sure you need it to find success, but it usually winds up fun at least.
• Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?
  
  -As a person who kind of ran out of time to run a guild, I really couldn't think of anyone at the time within it who would run it without changing how it was ran entirely, or without it just dying from lack of inactivity either way.??If you can find someone who can hold the ideals the original leader had then it can work, but this often is not what happens.??Usually guilds try to merge with pre-existing ones or make new ones.??A certain reputation comes with the guild name, and its perhaps more respectful that either of the examples I provided above happen.
  

Well now that I'm done with that checklist of questions I wanted to ask you guys what you think overall of the leaders of guilds here on heRO.??Don't mention names, just give your overall impressions of how you felt.??If it is poor, what should leaders do to be better you think???If it is good, why was how they handled things viewed that way?

Again follow all rules stated at beginning of topic and I will answer later today or tomorrow

[Aneko]

????* Can anyone you feel lead a guild?

-No. Being a leader as some have already said need a few key qualities.
????
????* What kind of people should be leaders for a guild?

-People who are open to communication and others views. (Hope this makes sense). This doesn't necessarily mean that he/she needs to involve any decision making with the guildies but it is nice to ask others for their input or listen to what they have to say. After all, you aren't a guild without them!

-Being actually AROUND is also good. I mean you don't have to be on 24/7 and life is a bitch sometimes but who wants to be in a guild if their own leader seems dead?

-One who can handle tough decisions for the good of the guild and the members. Why be a guild leader if you don't care?

- Friendly. <- I don't think this needs an explanation......

????* Does a guild need a goal it strives for to be successful, please give examples of why or why not if possible.

Sure they do in order to keep peoples interests up. Whether it be trying new dungeons or holding a castle. People tend to leave if the guild has no future.
????
????* What does hearing the words "WoE guild" mean to you?

-WELL, from my experiences the explanation can vary. As you know it was centered around, well, 'WoE'. Whether it's partying to get your character stronger or hunting items. It was constantly busy so you didn't have really enough time to chit-chat unless it was to the party itself. I wouldn't say all are elitist, just that they're too busy to sit down with you.
????
????* What does hearing the words "social guild" mean to you?

-Social guilds are more oriented around well, socializing. Not so much woe and a bit more relaxed. Social guilds seem more interested in making friends and going with these friends to kill MVP's and such.
????
????* Do you feel that a person needs a guild to find success and fun within the game?

-Not necessarily. When Saii and I joined HeRO we didn't join a guild off the bat. We actually did pretty well forming our own. It was thanks to Rain and Pictish though that got our guild off the ground. Never forget it you guys.
????
* Does a guild in your opinion "end" if the leader(s) is/are not active anymore, or is it possible to find someone else to "pass the torch to" so they say?

-I can't really say for sure. It can go both ways.

[Antimind]

I have very little experience with guild leaders on the server however...

I approached one guild leader after having had a problem with one of their members. Just a friendly heads-up that their player had been reported and what for. I don't know if any action was taken. Only thing I can say for sure is that it really didn't seem to matter much to the guild leader. Maybe it did but nothing was really said on the matter. I know if the situation were reversed I'd have handled it a lil better.

Another guild leader I know seems to have it together. Very friendly with people outside the guild. Makes sure all is functioning well within the guild and that rules are followed.