woe reductions and damage hider for ToH pvp

[iSpam]

it is a competitive pvp event so how come these factors don't exist?

both a question and suggestion thread btw

[mahawirasd]

no... imho it's an exhibition pvp event. It's supposed to allow people to show that they can master their class in pvm events (monster/items) as well as pvp events quite evenly. If woe reducts are in place, some classes would need to be built even more towards pvp, thus seriously retarding their ability to do the general pvm courses well.

Although one can contend woe reducts will make priests even more viable,
1. they already get a bonus, and
2. if more priests show up, what we'll end up with is just more "draws" and nobody wants that yo, we want to watch em get at it


-w-

[azurerogue]

Actually, hiding damage in ToH PvP is worth considering. If you want to encourage more serious competitive players to participate, that is... Knowing what your opponent (at the moment) is using for gear helps a bit - knowing what your future opponent has available is a much bigger advantage. It also slightly weights fights so that anyone on their first fight has a slight advantage (if they were paying attention) to anyone on their second or later fight.

[mahawirasd]

what you're saying sounds fair enough albus +1


-w-

[ABlueJelly]

Hiding the damage is something I can agree with. Keeps that "wait did they switch to GR?" feel... and as Albus said, it hides what your future opponents might be using.

But putting in WoE redux is stupid; you can play a bolter prof or sniper and be *effective* in PvP when there isn't WoE redux if you know how to play it. Putting those in, and it's really just who brought more pots. Since most WoE damage dealing builds have very support-hungry (namely mana pots (which are always heavy) and some buffs) PvM applications, making it really difficult for them to compete in either of the PvM events unless every monster is demi-human.
WoE redux denies "competition" by limiting which classes can be killers. Best examples are Professors. Unless you've got a Hibis or Kiels or the other player isn't potting (or has no redux) , you won't win against anything except maybe a sniper (assuming you're using the Right Stuff and they aren't).

Another note while we're on the topic of woe redux...
Another thing this would (likely) break is the ability to use uninteruptable cast. Which is another thing that profs need to be a viable killer without bragi and buffs. "But you can get dex!" Yeah, sure, you can, but insta or near instacast builds always have one of two things about them:
a) they're epic glass chain-guns (respectable matk) that die if you so much as breathe on them
b) they have no matk

Both of those setups are poor for duels as you either have no survivability or have no killing power.

[Aevyn]

Competitive has nothing to do with WOE reductions being in place.??The iRO Championships run PVP rules.??WOE and PVP are very different.??A WOE build is -not- a PVP build.??I'm not necessarily against WOE rules in TOH, but I don't think you can use the fact that it's "competitive" as an argument for using the WOE mechanics.

While the WOE mechanics push down the damage a bit, this probably hurts "low damage" classes way more than it hurts Biochemists/Assassin Crosses/Champions etc.

I don't think you can hide the damage without running full WOE rules, but if you could, is this really more competitive than seeing the numbers???For example, switching between Ghost/Unfrozen is a big mind game no matter if you see numbers or not.??Sure, you can attack once and see which armor is on in -that instant-, but does that help your second attack???You could guess/assume things... because who is to say your opponent didn't choose to run a certain armor to trick you into doing something?

[iSpam]

Aevyn Wrote:is this really more competitive than seeing the numbers?

actually this one's very crucial. people don't only switch gr and marc, not all attacks are forced neutral

[Mara]

Another example why PvP is what it is; Snipers, you don't see one DSing in WoE, you see them using FA when they do attack, most of them don't even expect to kill. Now a PvM sniper can easily do well in PvP with their high agi/dex build just DSpaming away at people.

Put WoE conditions to PvP and that Sniper is pretty much useless, since his flee is basically worth shit and his DSpam is pretty much tickling all the vit junkies. Then people would have to look at their build and balance things out for PvM and 1vs1 WoE? Don't think so.

EDIT:
You saw nothing! >_>

[Shikari]

Aeo didn't post...

[loveapples]

Mara Wrote:+1 to Aeo

Another example why PvP is what it is; Snipers, you don't see one DSing in WoE, you see them using FA when they do attack, most of them don't even expect to kill. Now a PvM sniper can easily do well in PvP with their high agi/dex build just DSpaming away at people.

Put WoE conditions to PvP and that Sniper is pretty much useless, since his flee is basically worth shit and his DSpam is pretty much tickling all the vit junkies. Then people would have to look at their build and balance things out for PvM and 1vs1 WoE? Don't think so.

My sniper still manages to do alright in its PvM build. I know Marivel did quite well with her PvM builds in WoE as well. Just saying

Shikari Wrote:Aeo didn't post...

Exactly my thoughts... lol