January 2012 ToH Appreciation Thread

[Deimos]

Do you know expert in any sector will have to go through the same probation period to show their dedication and will to the work place before having the access to the core of the business?

You gonna give someone your bank account details just to anyone working with you?

When sh*t already happen, its easy to say what we/they should have done.. maybe one day you will understand when you actually encounter similar event in real life...

[Shinigami l0_0l]

i never say that they cant make any mistake. they can. and they possibily made one sooner or later.

but please, admit and apologize if it happens. why did u even assume i want everything perfectly?

[Deimos]

if you don't see it, sure you don't read what you write.

[Firenza]

GM-Circe Wrote:Piggies are pink.
Therefore pink = okay?

But I remember someone promising nukes for those attempting to answer "pink"! I demand nukes!

[Namine]

Shinigami l0_0l Wrote:question : did u count the DC as problem?

Did you count DC as a unpreventable problem?
If yes, then you should realize that given how many years heRO has been up and running ToH 12 times every year, it is bound to happen once in 7 years. So... one GM's DC in 100 ToH that last 7 hours each on average? Not bad in statistical odds really!

Quote:if yes, there is a problem
--> did u check the the problem and the effect?

Problem is known since 2007 due to the intricate way that the script is coded. Details of this problem belongs exclusively to members of the GM team, which may or may not have changed since I was last knowledgable of it (that's 2 years ago.) Is this fixable? Probably. Can the GMs do it? Depends on the one with database access and how she chooses to approach it (if it's approachable), so ultimately it's up to Panda.

Quote:if no, will it impact ToH?

A known, potential problem in ToH script, let's call out the think-tank and see if it will have a negative impact. Hmmm... *deep thought*[/quote]

Quote:--> if yes, did u check the effect?

Host GM has proper training and strict guidelines on certain things they can't do in ToH. However, a DC sort of forces the GM to break these guidelines against his or her own will. Given that, of course GMs know the effect already. There's a reason training first time hosting GMs need to practice hosting and literally learn the button pressing on how to start/end certain trials in test server.

Quote:--> if dunno, did u check the situation?

See the above.

Quote:--> if no, then your decision is valid (but i guess its not right to move to this path)

What the GMs chose to do in Jan ToH is valid either way. Your logic is equilvalent to the situation to the following potential bad science fiction film:

"Well it's not NASA's fault that the earth is in shambles cause Mars crashed into it, but only if they didn't realize that Mars is coming at all. They couldn't have carried out preventative measures so it's not their fault, right right? On the other hand, ohhhh if they see Mars coming and couldn't build a giant laser to blast it to pieces before collision within a year, damn them irresponsible bastards!"

Just because you know that a problem is there, that doesn't mean you can always make a foolproof plan to stop it from occurring. Sometimes, you know it's coming, and all you can do is hope that it never happens. In Glyph's case, and any GM's case including even Panda herself, you just gotta hope that your internet connection is stable during the entire 7 hours of ToH. It has happened before that a support GM and host GM switch places an hour right before a ToH (Nara and I swapped once) because the host GM detects an internet stability issue.

Quote:dont compare your silly trivia with ayu's downtime trivia.
1st. its on forum and they got more time to answer

It's exactly that it's NOT on the forum that the GM got much less time to come up with a question either. Questions that can be asked differ dramatically if it's ingame or on forums. You got character spacing to worry about. Your questions got to be one line or 2 lines long at best. This is very restrictive to give a detailed, thought-provoking, anti-google question for trivia.

Also, every GM is allowed and ENTITLED to host an event as he or she sees fit. You insist on refusing to live in the present times and keep calling upon "good old GMs who aren't here anymore" type of thing? We can play that game. Even back in the "good old days," GMs always have a distinctive style in events and GMs are thankful that they don't have redtape in that categories of things, thank goodness. GMs are volunteers, and they like to do things in ways they like it too, so long as it's allowed by GM rules of conduct. Style and preference aren't part of the rules for a GM.

Mystra always liked the spontaneity and *never* plans an event in advance. Whatever makes her giggle will be how the event goes. She absolutely detests novice events and will avoid helping those out if she can in all ways possible. Is the lack of prep a bad thing? Not always. Some people just like to roll with it and they do worse trying to think of how it goes in advance. You just can't always prepare for how players react, so the lack of planning actually lets you be very flexible. You also don't "railroad-track" the players to do one thing only too.

Nara loves novice events and randomness. Dice, hide and seek where events depend on "luck" do not bother her at all. Is luck-based games "fair" for players? Some like them, and some don't.

And I like walls of text. I am pretty sure that I *still* maintain the status of the GM with the most walls of text typed up in the forum, as much as surely Circe wants to beat me at it ;p


Can't please everyone. If you don't like Glyph and/or Circe's style? Don't participate then. Nowadays, they let you know in advance who the host is. You see a "unfair" host incoming? Skip this ToH, and attend the "Pandora Wing Giveaway Driv... HOLY MOTHER OF BAPHOMET this 5th waveOH-GOD-IT'S CECI- *9k crit OHKO*" trials then.

You want to whine about Circe and Glyph on a trivia question? Play a high wizard when Azote hosts next. I DARE you.

Quote:2nd. even if it cant be googled, its a math quizz, with a valid reasonable and explainable answer. not subjective question

I don't recall Norse mythologies and origins to be a field of mathematics.

Quote:@deimos
did u know that they didnt grab random people for any random job? they called expert for a reason as well.

from what i read, the problem caused by DC

Yup.

Quote:but it went worse because of wrong decision made by the GM. and that wrong decision supported by the GM lack of knowledge about the event itself.

Unless you're Jeremy the Cricket and Glyph is Pinocchio, I don't know how you can make a bold statement saying that Glyph, Circe and the others lacked knowledge about the event. Circe, Forge and Glyph try their hardest to be the best of what they can be as GMs. Even now, Glyph and I aren't friends but we maintain business-like conversations to exchange opinions on monster scripting (I don't GM anymore but it's still fun to muse about things. Planning how many ways can players die for the players' enjoyment is my favorite part of GMing which I certainly miss. Just taught Glyph how to cast Holy Bolt Lv 10. Camp them Angeling before next month's trials or suffer guys ;D)

Quote:can the GM prevent the problem expanding from the 2nd wave that time?
yes, if they try all of possible method to check the 2nd wave condition post DC situation, instead of gambling on autofix.

Or did it occur to you that heRO GMs got staggering levels of authority and difference in level of access to server materials? There are times when you thought of a possible solution, yet you got no access to carry it out. I wished so many times that when there's a rulebreaking player in heRO in the past who's spamming novices that I can just IP ban, but that's not my area of GMing responsibility. Quick! Let's whine about Ayu doing a lame-ass spawn-camp strategy to instant-kill novices with 30 beelzebubs in newbie ground and bribing the players to shut up in main for 2 hours in exchange of an event! All of that ruckus just to stop *ONE* measly player from spamming character creation to bypass jail punishment instead of doing the right and proper thing of an easy ip ban.

For all you may care about, the autofix may be the *only* accessible solution to GMs who don't have access to server database. Either you hope for the autofix, or you do nothing. Glyph and the others tried to fix something is probably better than not trying and leaving the players to their own demise, perhaps hiding and pretending that he's still DC-ed. The autofix is the *responsible* thing to do.

Shinigami l0_0l Wrote:but please, admit and apologize if it happens. why did u even assume i want everything perfectly?

Because while you didn't expect perfection in skills, you expected perfection in power and accessibility from all GMs. As long as a GM isn't GM lv 99, there's restrictions placed on them for your safety against potential corruption. That's the give-and-take of anti-corruption measures: limitations to what a GM can do.


They already admitted that it did not go smoothly, but why should Glyph apologize for a wrong that he did not do? Might as well blame Glyph for global warming. Yeah, let's do that! Glyph, stop farting and releasing greenhouse gases! ADMIT AND APOLOGIZE!!!!


Be very, very glad that you guys have Forge, Circe and Glyph to keep this server running and going. They're your current GMs now. Move on and give them the proper respect that they totally deserve.

[Tulwar]

Hi Namine. c: I like your wall of text, best read in a while on heRO forums.

[Aaronock]

Hi Nami.

I just avoid the monthly ToH. Personally can't sit in front of a videogame that long anymore without getting bored and/or restless.

But yah, if you really can't stand how GM's run the whole show, best way to avoid the drama is to not go. :X

[Snowhawk]

Nami~ I love you~

I missed ToH due to work. Wish I could have made it.

[raphael.cruger]

FJHBSERUHGSDVKLJGN

K I don't care about whatever happened in caps plz IDC.

Just want to point out a few things about the trials:

Monster Trail

Everyone knows this: First 3 trials were too easy. Thats all.

Trials 4 and 5 were NOT FAIR >:| Bradium Golems have 88 def how the hell do you kill 3 of them in two minutes without AD or a prof. IMO toh mobs should present a more or less equal challenge to all classes, at least the ones suited to it not be something that only 1 or 2 classes can kill and then tell everyone else to GTFO. And Seyren OMG. Not nice. AND if the idea is to make us work for it then more time would be really nice in the last 2 rounds here, as a thought.

Item trial:
First of all is there somewhere I can see the creation list for the crafted items? BESIDES IN THE TRIAL? A lot of people already know what to hunt. Also its too hard imo. When classes like WS and snipers can barely get past 30 points you know everyone else is just going to suck.

Too few mobs = too much KSing and running around looking for monsters in time you should be spending killing. This was after a certain % of the people just left due to the trauma in the earlier trial.

Just a thought but it should be more about skill than luck too. The items required are generally such that achieving a maximum score within the time limit is... impossible. And worse not even CLOSE to what anyone could call possible.

Also I know that many share this problem but I. Always. DC. during the mass battle. No Ifs or Buts. Always. Since there do exist people who never DC can someone tell me why this occurs? And what i can do to fix it.

All in all a good toh and it was undeniably fun =) TY

[Firenza]

This is getting too long. It's like one of those couples fights where they don't know what they were originally fighting about anymore. Or at least I see it that way.