January 2012 ToH Appreciation Thread

[Former-GM-Circe]

Rankin.
Be aware that the no insults works both ways.
Count this as a warning, and if it continues, the forum slapping will be going you way.

Shinigami is allowed to disagree, even though I've tried my best to explain my side to him. He's not forced to believe it. As long as he keeps it civil, he can disagree.


Infact, everyone take this as a general warning. While I'd prefer to keep the thread open, if it falls to insulting and flaming, I will close the thread and punish those who were doing the insulting/flaming/whathaveyou.



Lena.
You must have read like 1 Gaia thread total, then. >

[mahawirasd]

err right... finally read through the posts... perhaps we really got side tracked here...

i think the main point shinigami is making is basically: glyph should apologize for being too hasty in resuming waves after his DC.

in defense of glyph:
1. it was a freak DC
2. glyph did not have foresight of how his DC will affect the timers
3. all the screaming in main at the time surely didn't help

in defense of shinigami:
1. the main point shinigami has been pressing on (albeit being side tracked by talks of personal losses, etc) was that when you DC, you should take a breather and analyze the situation rather than forge on. Panda had to be waken up abruptly in the middle of the night, i don't know how much info she got from her wake up call, but nevertheless she took her time and talked with the players to pinpoint the problem so that she could make an informed decision rather than a rushed one.
I feel that this is the main logic behind the argument - that if one DCs, one should take some time and check the situation rather than rush anything. I was there at the time and i was one of the first to scream on main telling him to wait because my wife was still waiting for her respawn. Glyph rushed it.
Regardless of foresight or script know-how, RO players all know that when you DC in the middle of doing something, the first thing you do is to re-buff and recheck your equipments, usables, etc before forging on. We do this in fishing, we do this in quests, we do this in everyday parties, we do this while we're grinding. There is no reason at all not to take a breather after we dc to settle things down. Ask any priest, what do they do if they dc in the middle of any old mindless grinds?
I am just an average priest, but when i dc, i make it a point to stop the party a tad to rebuff, so that we reset our own timers so that we know that the rest of the party's timers are synched to ours.
Therefore, perhaps the main thing we can take out of this is to incorporate a "manual fail-check" in the SOP for hosting TOHs so that future mishaps can be averted.

2. when panda came on, she apologized and eased the players even though she had not done anything wrong - surely the same treatment is not too much to ask from the main host?

Now I know that this is a silly request considering the effort that everyone involved put to provide us with an enjoyable gaming experience. And i have told shinigami repeatedly that it is probably considered a moot point by many. Nevertheless, perhaps a heartfelt apology by Glyph would ease everyone in TOH that time and would actually make the attendants more at ease and sympathetic - it surely worked for Panda, so perhaps Glyph apologizing would be a great way to put this thing to rest and ease all involved.

anyway, they say that hindsight is always 20/20. So perhaps looking at the code as it is now, what we can do the next time something like this happens (rather than waking Panda, etc) is to run the next wave without any participant entering so that it can reset itself like what they finally did. This time, just make sure to @doom Sucasa before the wave starts


W

[Former-GM-Circe]

We didn't wake Panda up in the middle of the night.
ToH was at 9PM server time. We'd probably reached 9:30, 10Pm at latest when it started and we left her messages. We left these message on MSN and she saw it when she saw it. No phone calling. No middle of the night.


Glyph was host. I was there as support. Thus, I am part of ToH. When I apologise for delays and the such and try to ease it, I do it on behalf of the team, as does Panda. That means Glyph too. He is part of the team.
If it was the other way, and I was hosting and Glyph there as a tag along, I would have got him to do that while checking out other things too. It's what a second GM at the event should be doing.



Taking more time to look at things would not have removed the possibility of the script having a fix for this automatically on player entrance. Glyph knowing that it was a player timer would not have magically removed the possibility either.
Most of Shinigami's points revolve on already knowing the information that happened. He's arguing from hindsight , which, unfortunately, we did not have at the time, and unfortunately, makes a huge, big fat difference in how things are perceived.





Etcetc.

[Shinigami l0_0l]

question to the gm who understand the script: what kind of function and mechanism executed when starting a new wave. the initial and final state of each command, mechanism and function

[Former-GM-Circe]

Again, hindsight. That's something we have access to now, but not at the time. :/

It's not a question of which GM understands the script. I can do that. But I need to actually have the script in order to do it.
It's because of my knowledge and understanding of scripting that I was able to think of so many possibilities in the first place.

[Rankin]

GM-Circe Wrote:Rankin.
Be aware that the no insults works both ways.
Count this as a warning, and if it continues, the forum slapping will be going you way.

<3 you too.

[Shinigami l0_0l]

@circe: just show me so we can both check if its a hindsight or not. im 80% sure its not a hindsight..

[Former-GM-Circe]

Quote:hindsight - noun
recognition of the realities, possibilities, or requirements of a situation, event, decision etc., after its occurrence.

If we don't know about it at the time - it's hindsight. If we learn about it after - it's hindsight.
That's what hindsight is.
Showing you a script I had not seen does not prove to you whether or not I had seen the script beforehand.
Nor will I ever release any script I have possession of to anyone outside of the GM team unless I have express permission to from Pandora herself.


As I've stated before, you can choose not to believe it, but that doesn't change the actual facts.

[Ptah]

Damn, wira, i love you! Most awesome tl;dr ever.
Yet still wall of text /gg

Anyways, stop making me answer again please >.> God sees i didn't want to post anything from the start here, but just got carried away after one certain post. And Circe, yes, i agree that 1 man CAN apologize for whole bunch of people, yet in that case NONE of those people can react like "you got your apology from someone OTHER than me, so gtfo here". At least that's what i'm thinking. Would be epic if... uhhmm.. Let me find that... *Damn you Circe and your piggies which kept me staring at them for like 10 mins* Aha... President of that "call center/support department" would go like "Ah, shit happens, get over it, it was inevitable, so you can scram now ^____________^". Not to mention, that working with people sometimes calls for apology, even if it's totally not your fault (I think it's called communication skills?). It's too bad i can't link one side url since it's on Russian and there's no English analogue that i know about. On the second thought, just think of how many nerves would 3 words from Glyph save you ^__________________________________________________^

A little offtopic

[Rankin]

Ptah Wrote:Damn, wira, i love you! Most awesome tl;dr ever.
Yet still wall of text /gg

Anyways, stop making me answer again please >.> God sees i didn't want to post anything from the start here, but just got carried away after one certain post. And Circe, yes, i agree that 1 man CAN apologize for whole bunch of people, yet in that case NONE of those people can react like "you got your apology from someone OTHER than me, so gtfo here". At least that's what i'm thinking. Would be epic if... uhhmm.. Let me find that... *Damn you Circe and your piggies which kept me staring at them for like 10 mins* Aha... President of that "call center/support department" would go like "Ah, shit happens, get over it, it was inevitable, so you can scram now ^____________^". Not to mention, that working with people sometimes calls for apology, even if it's totally not your fault (I think it's called communication skills?). It's too bad i can't link one side url since it's on Russian and there's no English analogue that i know about. On the second thought, just think of how many nerves would 3 words from Glyph save you ^__________________________________________________^

A little offtopic

Free items plzthx.