To address your topics specifically, I'll make sure I quote them for better access.
Quote:You indirectly supported my point actually. lol If the "FINALLY EXCITEMENT" comes when two to three guilds are all in one castle, why not just reduce it and start WoE out like that. Why should we have to wait, and "thin ourselves out" to get excitement between what? 9 people? Since YOU said theoretically there'd be 2 - 3 people in each of these castles. Isn't a clash of 20 - 30 people much more fun that 9? Dno about you but I'd have to say yes on that one.
Yes 2-3 guilds in one castle = fun, but that is under the assumption that people will always WoE, that no matter what happens that people will show up. That for no rewards at all people will WoE. If that was true that there was a steady and constant supply of WoE players no matter the environment it was set, yes your answer would work, and I agree with it. If people did not care about rewards and always showed up, then pushing it to one castle would be the easiest way to get the most action, the best WoE's.
However, I'm arguing that people are motivated by rewards. If they don't get a reward, they don't try as hard. If they don't get a reward for long enough then they stop trying. By reducing the castles to fewer less people become involved and more massive guilds are created and WoE becomes less of a fight, and more of a sit.
To point this out, I'd like to show you Alde. It's one castle, and one major guild in force. There are people out there that would like to be involved in non-trans WoE, but there is no reward for their effort. They think non-trans WoE can be fun, and they may have even had good experiences with it in the past, but to receive nothing from it, the war becomes pointless, and so the one guild just sits there.
By opening up all castles the rewards increase, there's a bigger incentive for people to be involved, and then more things happen.
Quote:I also think it's a bit late in the game to seriously expect guilds like DoE/Behe/4SRS/KoJ to actually split themselves up into little 2 - 3 person guilds, again following YOUR logic and YOUR calculations. I don't think that after months/years of working together someone would literally just take 2 friends and be like, sup bro let's go get us some Wools and Odin's. Yes splits happen, trios or duos are kinda rare, just sayin.
I understand that you would think that guilds wouldn't break up, and there will be core people that will stay together through thick and thin. I do find it interesting that you put 4srs in that list considering that they did exactly what I've been referring to, but that's a different topic. The groups do not have to be 3 people strong, what I said before was an average. Since math isn't scary to you, you should know what that means. There is quite a lot of wiggle room outside of those core groups. There will be people breaking off, and to assume that one group of 20 people won't break apart is assuming that your social skills are a lot better than most MMO players. The server might prove me wrong and there won't be any splinters, but considering who we are, I'm not thinking we're walking away from this unscathed if it was to happen.
As for veteran players breaking out and doing things, I'm not saying that everyone should. I keep repeating this because it keeps being misinterpreted. If you want to sit with your 6 friends and defend, go for it. There is room for it with all of the castles open. If you like defending so much, what is there to loose from castles being open? It's less people at your door step that you have to worry about. If you consider a good WoE people running into your precast and you standing there pressing 3 buttons over and over again, that can still happen with all of the castles open.
Quote:Funny how you expect them to fix it so quickly but then again I dont expect it to happen since that would be god knows how much work for them and I don't think a handful of people is really a big enough base to make such a large change.
Actually on the coding side of it, making all of the castle open would be really easy. The game was originally coded for all castles to be open, so it'd be as easy as restoring the coding that was there. Nothing new would have to be done except for possibly updating the wiki to say that all castles are open.
I don't expect this to be implemented tomorrow, I just want to address it and give it the time that it deserves. It's a better answer in my mind than reducing castles down. It's something we've never tried, and I think it deserves an honest look.
Quote:Not to mention with how many nameless parties there are, I find your argument of there being such a "deprived/inflated market for them" kind of laughable.
As for the comments about inflated market, I could care less about the market, I'm just telling you what the server is complaining about, and typically it's the cost of items on @at. You and I might not care or interact with @at, but there are people on this server that do, and by opening up castles, those people that care would get lower prices, and I'm trying to show how this would affect more than just the WoE players on the server.
Quote:Please, if you wanna keep talking about zenny sinks and throwing around tons of calculations, imo by all means make a new thread and suggest more zenny sinks lol. We're trying to talk of how to make WoE "more of a battle" not how to "better fix the economy through WoE". You tend to drown out your points by trying to touch on "all these other wondrous things that your plans include for us".
The zenny sink stuff was there just because I was bored. I even started it out saying I was bored and was trying to find something to put me to sleep. I even suggested that you skip over it. It was more to show people another aspect of what would come from my idea. What would come from your idea? More of the same of what we have? More people having the exact same argument that has been happening for ever on this server? Would anything change for the better?
Quote:Not to mention, hey if people got out of nameless once in a while they might end up at a place like Odins Temple and drop some OBs, what a crazy idea. Much better to just wait for good ol' treasure chest god to drop 'em.
I enjoy how you make the same comment that everyone makes about nameless/brainless or whatever other insults you'd like to throw around, about how it's over used. Yet again, point for the self motivation. It's used because it's easy and it works. It's easy to gear for, easy to run, and it gets you the levels that you want. Why go someplace hard and work hard when you can just do nameless?
With that same mentality more people would join WoE because it becomes easier with open castles. People don't want to join WoE right now because there's such a steep equipment and learning curve to it that it's not worth it. Open up the castles and people would become interested in it because it wouldn't be so threatening.
Quote:I also at no point said there was a problem with large guilds monopolizing multiple castles, but I gave you a specific scenario which you didn't answer or respond to at all, and instead just copy and pasted your own scenario and went on and on about how it will "fix all". I am trying to tell you clearly "large guilds will not sent small parties out to defend said castles" they "most likely, following example" wait for last 5 min, send a handful of sinxs out to just mass break whatever they can, and end with what they can. They won't make the effort to defend it.
Assuming that large guilds will just send out sinxs to break things down at the last minute, that means that at last minute they're undefended. The last 10 minutes is when you push the big guild if that's what they're doing. They can send out 6 sinx's to take out as many castles as they want, that's 6 less people in their defense. Did that address your situation enough?
Quote:Like I said in my first post, it sounds like you wanna change WoE from a competitive event into a, let's get some pals, hug an emp, and roll around in the treasure room type deal. Fine, if that's what you prefer then that's fine, but as I said don't try to call it a war of emperium since you changing a guild event into a trio-ish event in which "everyone wins". Guess everyone will take that wrong since as a DoE memeber I'm automatically labeled an elitist, but don't see how taking the competitive nature out of a "competitive event" fixes 1 thing.
Your assumption that I want to make WoE a bit more friendly is right.
WoE, on this server, for new players, is inaccessible.
You either join one of the major guilds and follow their rules or you loose.
If you don't like that, your only option is to start your own guild, but you're most likely going to loose for the first year without fail if you do that.
You want WoE to be more challenging by squishing everyone in the same area.
I want WoE to be more challenging by letting more people in and letting the war be as small as 4v4 in one castle.
You say that you want competition, but we all know that right now, it's not happening. I think that if you were to reduce the castles down to one, it would happen even less. Again, people do not compete just for the sake of competing, they want something to gain from it. You don't keep on running track and field if you know that you're always going to come in last place.
And the obvious elitist/veteran/jaded response to this is 'fine, then quit, WoE-ing if you suck'. But there's the problem, people are doing just that. People realize that they're not up to the veteran/elitist/jaded level so they just give up, and we're becoming a smaller and smaller number of people that want to WoE.
By removing castles, less people are involved and WoE becomes even more intimidating and people quit, which is what we don't want.??
By adding castles, WoE becomes less intimidating and more people will start to join, which is what we want.
Namine- I agree with what you say when you say,
Quote: If anything, the fact that heRO is old and RO is old is what hurts WoE the most. RO is an old game. Most of the new kids who got time haven't heard of something so old and ancient. Most of the kids who grew up around the time when RO is at its prime are now in post-secondary or got a job, so they can't afford the time to grind and dedication to WoE timeslot anymore. Server is old too, so people are afraid of catch up against a whooping almost-a-decade worth of items some players got/inherited. What can GMs/any policies really do to battle against stuff like that? None that I can think of myself...
Like really, how motivated are you to try to tackle the top dogs if you have to camp Ghostring every day at its specificed sparce spawn locations against all the other players to try to get its card, and you're against an empire of people who spammed the left mouse button continuously for their multiple copies?
The server has always done castles this way, and this is the way it's always been, so let's try something new. Let's allow there to be places for new people to join. 3-4 castles has always been the answer, and we're still ramming our head against that same wall. Let's try a more radical approach and go for 20. It opens up for new gaming possibility that have never happened, and it allows for something new to happen on something that is a decade old.
As for anything said or done about 4srs.
As stated before, I don't know the details, and I'm okay with that. Most of the action happened while my computer was broken, so I'm not invested in it. I'm just using them a lot because they are the most recent example of a guild breaking apart. There is nothing personal there, and no hard feelings felt from me. It's just in a discussion about guilds breaking up and the potential for that, they work as a very strong example that it can and does happen.