Brainstorming: Help Please

[azurerogue]

Well thought-out post, Devi. I would think that if we did WoE:SE having only one castle per time would definitely be needed. As for FE, I haven't seen any servers that only have one FE castle open per WoE but I also have only played a handful of servers outside of heRO so I don't know about that aspect.

A better randomizer for BG would be nice (or let us pick teams as in official BG, but some people claim this could be abused). Either way, I agree that BG needs to be a major focus (and soon) if we want to improve the competitive side of this server. BG has been out for a long time now, and we still have our custom version which (while better than nothing) leaves a lot to be desired.

[Jens]

azurerogue Wrote:Some people LIVE for social interaction in online games.??Others LIVE for PvP/WoE - why not let them do that (and almost solely that)???I think it's a valid comparison.??

There's always been a lot of friction between these two 'factions', fueled by a lot of people looking down upon and shunning people from the other, considering their preferred method of spending time on (he)RO superior and the only valid one while condemning everything else. Naturally, the majority of those players lie in the PvP fraction, as the competitive character of this area tends to attract people with a specific mindset, a lot of which cannot see the line between healthy rivalry and utter rudeness. I don't say all WoE/PvP 'freaks' are like that, but I've seen a way bigger percentage of jerks amongst them, a lot of them even unaware of doing anything wrong. And of course, people will bite back and here comes our vicious cycle of escalating hate.

There'll always be friction, always be flames, but IMO at least the unnecessary ones could and should be kept at bay, such as aforementioned condemnation of PvMers by PvPers. Come to think of it - some of those PvMers actually maybe would attend WoE etcetera but are discourage by others' attitude.

and before someone swoops in screaming CAREBEARS, there is no black and white. You don't have to be overly nice, just be civil. You don't have to be a jerk to not be a "carebear".

come to think of it, that's another source of friction. People are thinking too much absolutely polar, you're either this or that, nothing inbetween.

This is something we players can do, no scripting, GM powers, bug fixing, betatesting or anything else is needed.

tl,dr; incentives instead of insults

[GM-Pandora]

Thanks for a civilised thread.

Update already planned for next reboot: BG team amount will go from its current min 3 max 7 to min 2 max 12. This change does not mean we are not reading and considering other suggestions made, why this is coming now and not the rest is that changing the amount of players is only 2 variable to change at the top of the script, while other changes will require a more substancial script modification and testing. As explained before, the other types of BG do not work in our current svn, but next svn it's in the plan to include additional bg type to spice things up (we've said this several times not sure why it goes forgotten).

My own suggestions to BGers would be not to alienate people from it. I'm not sure if it's been going on too much nowadays but I know a while back we got several reports regarding bg, and I'm sure most of those people stopped to BG and it was because of the somewhat rude attitude they received from the regular BGer who "carry the team" as albus put it. Players getting killed by their own team, or the strong player refusing to fight the enemy so the weaker member doesn't get points, derogatory comments flying, etc. Most of these reports we had to tell them it was legal (except the direct insults). Not asking anyone to be a carebear (just civil as Jens puts it), but if you deter people away from something then don't complain not enough participate. Bg gear surpasses a lot of normal gear, people who were pvp/woe active before the addition of BG had gears to compete in it, but newcomers who wish to skip directly to bg gear and not hunt intermediary gear should also be able to do so without being ostracised, then you might see more people with BG gear in woe.

Also as a reminder, an update being worked on by 1 gm does not mean that the rest of the GM team is not working on other things. For example GM-Salt is in charge of BG, so GM-Azote working on a new custon dungeon does not hinder BG in any way. We work on different things, try to keep that in mind.

[Seth~]

urg. I know this was mentioned before (dono if it was covered in this thread)

BG/WoE consumable items like a package for each class focusing on their needs. (creator AD potions) is there any viable hope for players who would like to see such implemented, and (if GM response is forgotten) any time frame (this year / or / later?).

(ps Panda sighted)

[Gojira]

Jens Wrote:

azurerogue Wrote:Some people LIVE for social interaction in online games. Others LIVE for PvP/WoE - why not let them do that (and almost solely that)? I think it's a valid comparison.

There's always been a lot of friction between these two 'factions', fueled by a lot of people looking down upon and shunning people from the other, considering their preferred method of spending time on (he)RO superior and the only valid one while condemning everything else. Naturally, the majority of those players lie in the PvP fraction, as the competitive character of this area tends to attract people with a specific mindset, a lot of which cannot see the line between healthy rivalry and utter rudeness. I don't say all WoE/PvP 'freaks' are like that, but I've seen a way bigger percentage of jerks amongst them, a lot of them even unaware of doing anything wrong. And of course, people will bite back and here comes our vicious cycle of escalating hate.

There'll always be friction, always be flames, but IMO at least the unnecessary ones could and should be kept at bay, such as aforementioned condemnation of PvMers by PvPers. Come to think of it - some of those PvMers actually maybe would attend WoE etcetera but are discourage by others' attitude.

and before someone swoops in screaming CAREBEARS, there is no black and white. You don't have to be overly nice, just be civil. You don't have to be a jerk to not be a "carebear".

come to think of it, that's another source of friction. People are thinking too much absolutely polar, you're either this or that, nothing inbetween.

This is something we players can do, no scripting, GM powers, bug fixing, betatesting or anything else is needed.

tl,dr; incentives instead of insults

Albus asked to be constructive, not to start trying to divide people to turn this thread into a social vs woe thread. Please, take the time to read his initial post again and if you have some kind of valuable idea that could help woe, post it.

GM-Pandora Wrote:Thanks for a civilised thread.

Update already planned for next reboot: BG team amount will go from its current min 3 max 7 to min 2 max 12. This change does not mean we are not reading and considering other suggestions made, why this is coming now and not the rest is that changing the amount of players is only 2 variable to change at the top of the script, while other changes will require a more substancial script modification and testing. As explained before, the other types of BG do not work in our current svn, but next svn it's in the plan to include additional bg type to spice things up (we've said this several times not sure why it goes forgotten).

My own suggestions to BGers would be not to alienate people from it. I'm not sure if it's been going on too much nowadays but I know a while back we got several reports regarding bg, and I'm sure most of those people stopped to BG and it was because of the somewhat rude attitude they received from the regular BGer who "carry the team" as albus put it. Players getting killed by their own team, or the strong player refusing to fight the enemy so the weaker member doesn't get points, derogatory comments flying, etc. Most of these reports we had to tell them it was legal (except the direct insults). Not asking anyone to be a carebear (just civil as Jens puts it), but if you deter people away from something then don't complain not enough participate. Bg gear surpasses a lot of normal gear, people who were pvp/woe active before the addition of BG had gears to compete in it, but newcomers who wish to skip directly to bg gear and not hunt intermediary gear should also be able to do so without being ostracised, then you might see more people with BG gear in woe.

Also as a reminder, an update being worked on by 1 gm does not mean that the rest of the GM team is not working on other things. For example GM-Salt is in charge of BG, so GM-Azote working on a new custon dungeon does not hinder BG in any way. We work on different things, try to keep that in mind.

I'm aware that our current svn cannot handle other BG forms but I'm still wondering, when are we expecting the next svn? It'll be 2 years this summer since we last got an update and I really do think making more players get in isn't a solution. It might even become a problem because it's going to be, once again, the same people killing who are just going to end up using more materials since there will be more targets.

Also, the issue with the players you named (the ungeared ones) is that KVM is BY FAR the worst BG for new players. In tierra, any char can be a flag holder while the "stronger" people can go where there's a brawl to control the flag. In flavius, a game like capture the flag is very good for ungeared people because you can't even pot plus you lose hp/time once you gain control of the flag so it's better off if a weaker player is the flag carrier while the stronger ones protect the carrier.

[Jens]

Gojira Wrote:Albus asked to be constructive, not to start trying to divide people to turn this thread into a social vs woe thread. Please, take the time to read his initial post again and if you have some kind of valuable idea that could help woe, post it.

It's not like I invoked the gap into existence by pointing it out, the gap was, is and will be there. If you bothered to read carefully, I am suggesting we players try to bridge that gap, which is imo a valuable suggestion that might be able to encourage more people to woe. It is you who is immediately taking the hostile stance.

[mahawirasd]

first off, nice posts guys.

Thanks for the reply, Panda. I'm quite sure that is good news for quite a few players.

thank you albus and lala for the further discussions into possible changes for woe. I have no experience with woe:SE, but i've noticed how people keep saying that it would take more people to get going properly so SE would probably command only 1 castle and multiple guilds (if any) can compete and everyone will have a fun melee.

That being said, my sentiments regarding current FE woe stands: we would probably derandomize chests and open more castles to first entice people into woe before they will finally converge on the "prime" castles. Allowing more people from more timezones would probably also help - and yes, doing it on saturday would make it more accessible to everyone.

On a side note, after reading lala's post last night, for some reason the thought came up that perhaps the answer to life, the universe, and everything in it can also apply to HeRO's WOE.
a week is 7 days or 7x24 hours which means that's 168 hours
we could divide these hours evenly by allowing the winners to hold on to castles for 42 hours between each woe. The resulting woe schedule would allow for better variety of participants as well as overall more activity for the server (although the weekend winner will only hold one for 38 hours - a disincentive for people to just camp the weekend woe). Let me illustrate:
A. The 1st woe could be on monday 8 pm server time to cater to NA players while still being quite doable for early bird australian players
B. The 2nd woe would be on Wednesday 3 pm - still doable for a variety of NA players as well as being substantially more accessible for the european players.
C. Then the 3rd woe would be on 10 am Friday - again, doable for some NA players while allowing more asians and europeans to join in on the fun.
D. The 4th woe would then fall on 5 am Sunday - might be an issue for partying NA players and australians who work on monday, but should definitely be accessible for any asian and european player who plays RO on sundays.
Just thinking out loud here, and we could definitely figure out a proper arrangement, but i believe it might just work.


W

[Seth~]

mahawirasd's suggestions is a good idea imo. More castle maybe not but random chests will stop turtle, I hope.

[azurerogue]

Actually, random chests just slows down god item production - but it also means that a guild could stay in one castle and make ALL the god items instead of just the one they're working on.

[ChaosPrince]

2 WoE's a week is fine. 4 WoE/week is too much. People will just get fed up.