adjust War Zone drops/drop chances

[cane 33]

A creo can otk with AD all mobs but 1 and you can use your homunculus like shield (teleport can be used).
I already fight all mobs that u can found in this place and only Pistis is dungeuon, but just gear GR or have low VIT and you fix the problem.
And tbh I already found a way to abuse here~

[Ptah]

^ My first thought knowing that AD will most likely OHKO most monsters (remember that monster's don't have 1/2 damage reduct applied to them like characters do?) Albeit that will waste AD. Yet if like ange said those mobs are easily mobbable and killable, I'd completely rethink it (not as in my strategy to rethink, but as in adding this dungeon with those drops and easy abuse rethink).

[GM-Rahice]

Shinigami l0_0l Wrote:

Ange Wrote:I looked at the test server, and while two of the monsters weren't functional, it is a walk in the park to mob, and from what I've seen of the monsters in the db rooms, it will remain so when complete.

u can't say something not implemented yet on official server from test server in public....

He can say it in public because it was implemented on the real server, from what I understand - it's currently only open to those who have bought a Master Warp Pass or are a monster in the dungeon/purchased the package.

It's stated somewhere in the updates.

[Adrillf]

I just played on that map for a little while, and I really wish that I had submitted a different character on there so that I could have access on a more farm capable character.

The player mobs are so spread out and separated that you can easily catch one out of position and kill them even as a professor, the only thing you really need to watch out for is the plant spam from the creator and their ocasional AD that they throw at you. I can't even begin to imagine what a sniper could do on that map to farm it to high heaven with almost no challenge.

I really hope that there are some changes, because as fun as it is to go to the map and see a creator that I'm supposed to be killing stop and cast twilight alchemy, I don't really see why the mobs are creating potions.??

4- A better balance between drops and monster's strength. The difference between me and Bee is quite visible, and to think that I drop the same item as him (albeit at a very low percentage) and I'm very killable, have more than one of me on the map, and can be farmed like no one's business seems a little off. I don't mind custom mobs dropping rare items that normally belong to MvP's, just make it that the custom mobs are at least somewhere near the tier of the items that they drop.

GM-Azote Wrote:I'm sorry Adrillf. I just noticed I've hit "edit" rather than "quote". I'm sorry I lost some of your text.

[Mr. Charcanine]

Idk if this is very relevant to the balancing issues of the dungeon, but I just wanted to point out. I wont be surprised if the dungeon becomes filled with Snipers mobs because that is what the person wants to use to farm there instead of their mains. Just sayin =P

GM-Azote Wrote:I'm sorry Charcanine. I just noticed I've hit "edit" rather than "quote". I hope I didn't loose some of your text.

[GM-Azote]

Greetings heROes!

We're still balancing this dungeon which has been planned for a long time. Drops may move from a monster to another, better gear will end on hardest monsters. You want it to be on your monster? Submit your strongest bitch most powerful player monster!

Entrance is not meant to be all time exclusive to those who created a monster of themselves. It's only until next reboot which will make other access available. Next reboot should be within a week.

As for the free entrance, it will remain free for those who created a monster. You may pay the monster on your X character but ask the monster to be your Y character.


Changes to Warzone monsters that applies as of tonight:
- All monsters have received a HP boost
- All monsters have received a Defense and Mdef boost
- Kittie- now summons her parasite as slaves which will follow her and no longer has a Vanil until it is fixed
- Professors chance to web on chase has been increased
- Adrillf chance to bolt slightly increased on attack
- Leofer and Nagato.Yuki now cast coma at 0.1 chance (like Ledger of Death)
- Beauty now casts Double Strafe
- iPistis now drops Green Ferus Card (0.03) while Leofer drops Marc Card (0.06)


I will also provide below some answers to the questions on this thread.

Ange Wrote:I looked at the test server, and while two of the monsters weren't functional, it is a walk in the park to mob, and from what I've seen of the monsters in the db rooms, it will remain so when complete.

Monsters on test server are just there to make sure they don't crash the server themselves or with skills. They have been rebalanced directly on the server two times already.

The Roger Wrote:PS: Pistis with 99 int and Acid Bomb is OP imho.

Submit your most annoying character and piss people off with your own imagination!
Register a champ? a stalker? your AD Creator? a shecil DS sniper?

myBlack_isWhite Wrote:Gears that u can loot there are not just good gears. Those ones are high-end gears. I guess u made them possible to get not only from MVP so new players had more chances to get good gears for WoE... Well, people should farm BG for cheap pvp gears.

Now remember how do champs farm gefenia (incubus cards, AK cards) and imagine how fast MVP loot will drop in price. That means if u got no team for killing bee or ifrit but u have a 99/70 with medium gears u can have variants/ifirit ring/valk armor/etc too. That's just a matter of time but u will definitely get them. Replacing those MVP gears with AD/Poison Bottles/Berries/etc Boxes would be much better imo, so guild could do some trainings about their team work while farming consumables for upcoming WoE.

Comparing Variants dropped by Adrillf, don't tell me you can't farm AKs for a card value of 80m. It's not quite different, except the AK will not web and dispel you.

Adrillf Wrote:I just played on that map for a little while, and I really wish that I had submitted a different character on there so that I could have access on a more farm capable character.

First, thanks Adrillf for your very detailed and thought feedback. I'm glad we have someone saying more than "omg something drops high end gear economy is gonna crash".

Pandora and I have our own thoughts about balancing the dungeon and it implies being less easy, but not changing loots from A to Z. We did not want to implement new gears slightly better than existing gear like we did on Orcus Dungeon so we go for a new formulea to allow lonely people a chance to hunt some high end gear without being in an organized guild. Together, it's still faster and better to farm the gear directly on the high end MVPs for a largely better odd for a drop and the MVP card chance.

As for the first part of your response, this will not be required for a very long time. Other access types will be available on next reboot next week. We can't implement these without a reboot so it's a very short term privilege. Don't regret not making this character choice because of this.

Adrillf Wrote:The player mobs are so spread out and separated that you can easily catch one out of position and kill them even as a professor, the only thing you really need to watch out for is the plant spam from the creator and their ocasional AD that they throw at you. I can't even begin to imagine what a sniper could do on that map to farm it to high heaven with almost no challenge.

Parasites are a mistake. Plant cultivation did not work fine on monsters and I tried with Amon Ra summon type. Big mistake. It will be linked to the monster as when it dies the plant also dies, avoiding to crowd the map.

If there are not enough monsters, we will adjust. We're not launching a dungeon and not take a look at how it goes. It's a work in progress.

Adrillf Wrote:I really hope that there are some changes, because as fun as it is to go to the map and see a creator that I'm supposed to be killing stop and cast twilight alchemy, I don't really see why the mobs are creating potions.??

Someone registered a brewer I'm sure there will be other funny characters at times.

Adrillf Wrote:4- A better balance between drops and monster's strength. The difference between me and Bee is quite visible, and to think that I drop the same item as him (albeit at a very low percentage) and I'm very killable, have more than one of me on the map, and can be farmed like no one's business seems a little off. I don't mind custom mobs dropping rare items that normally belong to MvP's, just make it that the custom mobs are at least somewhere near the tier of the items that they drop.

It's not quite different than dropping a card Worth 80m (e.g. Abysmal Knight) which is easy to farm. Yes I like this example! We will try to give hardest player monsters the best loots, though "hardest" also depends on your hunting style. If you're ranged, caster or melee you will have different challenges. It's very likely that who drops what will change.

Mr. Charcanine Wrote:Idk if this is very relevant to the balancing issues of the dungeon, but I just wanted to point out. I wont be surprised if the dungeon becomes filled with Snipers mobs because that is what the person wants to use to farm there instead of their mains. Just sayin =P

There are no need to fill the dungeon with snipers, though this will be fun. A short aftercast delay with doublestrafe, I don't think iPistis will be the most annoying a long time .

[Adrillf]

I saw what you did there Azote


And I liked it.


Just played in the dungeon a bit more, and finally couldn't run around webbing everything and one shotting them with double fire bolts. I'm a little sad that I didn't farm more when I had the chance, but I like the modifications that you put on the mobs to balance it out a bit. It even took me 3-4 webs and a bit of luck to take down myself. I like the new mob me a lot better, much more willing to dispell and web (and his cast time isn't shabby either). Much more of a challenge, but still doable with a solo player if you manage to clear out a corner (my favorite is top left) and work from there.

I'm still a little confused by the sinx's in the dungeon, neither of them seemed to be hitting nearly as hard as I remembered them hitting me in a pvp setting (they would edp and sonic blow me, and wouldn't one shot me while wearing my super squishy matk gears).

Part of the reason that I want my HW in there, is from what I can tell just from this phase, is that everything can be frozen, and then bursted down from there. I didn't get much time to try to freeze things with the update that you just put out to see if this is still the case, but I'm really hopping that you'll take some notes from bio3 and mix up the elements of the mobs just to make it so you can't SG a mob and win.

I say the monster update was in the right direction, just a hair more difficult if you're looking for it to be a party dungeon instead of a solo dungeon, and yet again, MORE PLAYERS! If you don't already have a mob in there, get your butt in gear and get going! More fairy auctions to make yourself a mob to add into that dungeon! If all else fails, I'm adding some more Adrillfs into the dungeon because it's just been super fun to play on that map. It's like pvp and pvm had a love child, and out popped warzone.

Edit:
Speaking of the top left corner- there's a buggy area where you can port in, and even bolt things that are on the tower, but they can't reach you, and you can't walk out. 85,365 is the general area. Don't know if you can fix this, but it's just a weird little corner of the map that you can get stuck in if you're not careful.

And now that I've played in there even more, lolz at Kittie's brewer being in there. But, if you want the super evil thing to do, could you possibly give the creators the ability to summon their homuncs?

[Ange]

The monsters in the dungeon don't need to be dropping this kind of gear at all.
1) I'm no economist, but crashing the market for every mvp gear simultaneously is surely not a good thing.
2) You're trying to put every desirable gear in one dungeon; Economic abuse is the obvious choice for any good solo farmer (no matter how hard you make it, I can find a way to farm it efficiently). This isn't even comparable to farming AKs; I can DS AKs to death one at a time, or asura them. I can kill a dozen monsters at once in warzone.
3) New content should encourage diversity, but by putting everything in one place, there's no reason to branch out in one's farming.
4) You say that getting a drop from an mvp is faster, but you have to share those mvp drops with your party members. In Hentacle Tentai, it takes 4 kills to get a valk armor, that's a minimum of two days. You can produce a few drops per day that you don't have to share mobbing warzone.
5) As is, it's a worthwhile place to mob without the mvp drops because it's easy, mobby, and decent exp. It seems like you're trying to help new players overcome a gear barrier to pvp, but I believe you have missed the mark. The main barriers that need to be overcome are skill and consumables. You can overcome the first by making the dungeon difficult, yet worthwhile from an exp standpoint. Consumables are the main barrier to playing any sort of killing class (sinx needs edp, champ needs ygg berries, creator needs AD, and everybody loves potions). Having the dungeon produce some quantities of these things would help support an active WoE/PvP scene. The dungeon doesn't have to make it practical for one person to sit and farm his own consumables, but it could put some on the market for people to buy.

I've gone on long enough, and this probably won't make sense when I wake up in the morning.

[Demogorgon]

Agreed that its almost impossible to make it not farm/mobbable by snipers and/or sinx, seeing as theyre non boss so cant detect and are vulnerable to status

If on the other hand youd make the mobs so strong that high end geared chars cant mob there itll prob end up being too hard for medium geared chars to stand a chance there, making the point of closing the gear gap a mood point,in fact widening it bc high end folks will just op vend em to newbies who have to farm usual spots for zeny.

Also right now,you have to visit different places and meet different challenges to get the gear which helps the market(every map caters to one srength so people farm to their strengths and vend it) and the overall variety of the game.

as an economic example,take dg gears,once people found good ways to farm there all dg gears except for dia mant (and thats only bc many partys cirvumvent valks) are close to worthless right now, espacially considering stuff like dia rings used to be 40m.
its still only 1/4th of the map per drop and low drop chances but regular partys made those drops flood the market.

Now consider what a dungeon with just about every hunted item in it will do to the economy,espacially with 99 mobs that swarm you with bbs and soon high end mvps would only be hunted for cards bc it just isnt worth the time and expenses to kill them regularily.
(also,who cares about ifrit and valk card ;P )


Id predict that those over the top drops can and will in the long run harm variety and economy.

Its already good drop wise that you let em drop the major pvp related cards (bc noone likes farming marcs,hydras,thara frogs etc.)
Like many people suggested the gap in drop value can be closed to current setup if you change high level loot to consumables.

again if you make it possible by new people it will be abusable by high end folk hence work against closing gear gap.

[Ptah]

I was just thinking about it and just had to ask this now: You want to put in high-end gears in monsters into dungeon to encourage people to woe, yet you make woe a must to enter (hello sitting in corners in castle, in hide even) so people can farm them solo? Where the hell is logic in that? I'm pretty sure that for WoE you'll need what? A goddamn guild! If you have a guild for WoE what the hell is keeping them from doing high-end MvPs themselves? If you wouldn't be able to kill MvPs without high-end gears there just wouldn't be any since people wouldn't be able to kill them.

Also, why the hell you compare getting AK and variants? Not only do they have more than 1 .03 drop (and it's annoying as hell), but they also have a goddamn long quest to enter the place where you can actually farm them. I don't know if someone hunts them in Glast Heim, but it'd be inefficient as f**k. Here we have a dungeon to enter which you can just sit in a castle twice a week, with monsters bit more annoying, yet way more rewarding and in quite a count?

And as above, you somehow always forget about existing players. Mind you, this server is not having a fresh start with no players before, and if you release something you have to think about effect not only for new players, but also take in mind that already established players will gain at least twice the profit. For every mediocre geared x new players that can get a gear and be happy there'll be 1 already established player with high end gears that will get x gears and will laugh. And in the end we'll just break the economy and you'll have to fix it anyways. Like with bee wings. Or spare cards.