Homunculus

[Wired]

wussypuff Wrote:-best healer of the game...but there's FISH on this server. they're like 100 times better, easier to obtain, and heal both hp and sp.

-yeah, chemical protection...how does that tank for me or help me level? great for woe....but sadly you don't get xp from killing folks. even if you did, as an alchemist you're more a target to distract from the ranged folks

-each class as their up and down... alchemist is a SUPORT class, not a SOLO class. still they have a way to solo and it is plants or fireblend build. same goes for priest they are mostly a support class but still have 1 or 2 way to solo only. fact is that alchemist is one of the best tanker , best healer, and once you hit trans, one of the strongest killer... its a class that is suppose to party to lvl.


Homunc takes your job exp... gosh who cares about thatso many easy way to obtain fast job exp now: you realize that you can hit job 50 non trans under lvl 75? and 75 is what ... 1-2 day of training top?(talking about experienced player here) so once you hit 50... your Homunculus is basicly free exp ...

Im an alchemist/creator, and im totaly agaisnt Homunculus only because it makes it way too easy... homun = more creator than swordy class all together on most server... it really is sad...

[Kaoreii]

Having wandered my way to another server than actually, you know, has homun (and since I'm playing an alchie there) this thread makes me lol.

Homun are -not- automatically 'lol uber and OP'. First of all, if you do the homun quest the MINUTE you jobchange into Alchemist, first of all, you've already leveled a merchant. Congrats. :D Then you have to wait, what, 17 job levels...no...more like 27...to be able to use the homun skills (which eat up 7 skill points) and have enough chance to brew that you're not pissing your money into the wind (with level 10 DC, every homun attempt costs 65k. I know with the eco here that doesn't seem like much, but for someone new that's a lot) when you make your embryos.

THEN, you make an embryo finally, and it pops out a homun you DO NOT WANT. Then you have to spend 65k ovar and ovar again until you get the one you want.

I think to get my Amistr on the other server it took me more than two mil in embryos. 2 mil may not sound like much for some people, but when you have to farm for an hour or two for every 65k you spend.... yea.

Then you finally get the homun you want. Yay!

Homun start at level 1.

So it takes about a day of solid leveling to get them even remotely close to where you are to use them effectively. Leveling on things that give the alchie really bad experience, thus stalling the chemist's leveling. Plus, unless you get the food from drops on what you kill, it's not free.

Homun are Gravity's "sorry for gimping leveling with your class so bad" apology presents.

So while it makes it easier in the end...it's a lot of work and time to get there.

Kinda like gear hunting.

See what I did there?

[Alexander]

First, Kaoreii nailed some points, but also...one huge flaw with homunc that I have personally encountered- is their leveling.

For those of you who have played Final Fantasy Tactics or perhaps the Fire Emblem series, you're more then likely familiar with the RNG system (Random number generator). On the same said server, I've spent 2 mil to get the correct homunc I wanted...leveled it about halfway to 99, only to find out that given it's current rate it's about to end up entirely half-assed. It's matk will very likely cap out HALF of what it should be. It's a vanil, by the way.

That's a huge time and money sink considering now I'll have to restart it on top of what it took already to get this much. We can establish that.

In regards to those saying "OH, but you can already do xxxxx" Well, don't get me wrong. I love the creator class. But until you spend 5,000 zeny every time you use double strafe or something...don't come complaining to creators about how they have so many skills to use. 90% of their skills require a reagent of some kind, which is either expensive or tedious to hunt. No other class has this problem. Archers can buy all their arrows for a couple zeny at a item store. Where's the grenade seller? There is none. You have to spend hours farming the materials, and if you use it in combat to actually rely on, you'll run out within minutes. This applies to Firebomb, acid terror, acid demonstration, bio cannibalize, throw condensed potion, and throw potion(to a lesser extent because this is the ONE thing you can buy in stores.)

So, what creator skill is left to help with leveling, Axe mastery? Don't make me laugh.

Fireblend / ice falcion was the only reasonable way to level an alchemist without having to do more time farming then actually leveling or spending mountains of zeny. That's ridiculous. They still take up skill points, and they still take up a lot of time and zeny...but alchemists pay the price because that's how badly they're needed for the class. It was about time Gravity did something about it.

Concerning AI usage. From what I've experience, the AI can to an extent control your character. The only AI restriction on the spoken server is that you can not auto-feed. That being said, I do use an AI which can auto throw pot and is capable of auto fire bolting / cold bolting. I can't confirm or argue on the point of auto-rezzing, but have not seen this scripted into any of the AI's I browsed through.

[wussypuff]

exactly, homunc are a pain in the tooter but dang if we don't love 'em!

they random thing is great because yes, you can have a level 99 filir that is a big pile of poo. in which case you have to start all over again and hope to god you get something better!

that's a total nod in favor of them not being OP'ed.

nice post, Kaoreii :D

also, i've had nearly every homunc (save for amistr) and they all have their ups and downs.

yes, you can use those "auto" things like cold bolting and whatnot...i'm not a huge fan of them as to be honest, they're not all that effective. what your homunc can kill safely for you to "afk" you wouldn't have a chance to autohelp at all before the poor thing's already dead.

but if you'd LOOK at the scripting, TEST it, you'd know you CAN'T auto rez.

gheesh.

[Kaoreii]

Amistr's biggest downside is it takes forever to kill things. Or so I have experienced so far. But with me cold bolting the high orcs while sheepie tanks them, it doesn't take as long as trying to kite and cold bolt without the tank.

[Aaronock]

That's cause Amistir's job is to tank, and what an amazing one he is at that too, and he has utility with that teleporty switch move.

I played a vanil on my old server, he was funny and made bosses a joke for my creator, but then when they made the mvp updates I couldn't do it so good anymore, but I never was the best at killing bosses anyway

[Rhino_Man]

Amistir kills faster then lif until the two of them evolve.??Once they evolve lif gets godly and Amistir gets tankier.

EDIT: sorta like a high priest vs a paladin pretrans. Before they trans a priest is tough to kill but slow at hurting stuff in general, but crusaders are tough as nails and have high hp. Once they trans it kinda changes.

[wussypuff]

ok, i tested auto-rez with a phen clip. it's about the same success rate as if you lagged just right and got it.

basically, you'd stil have to be sitting at the computer watching your screen. it IS possible to auto-rez your homunc with a phen, but the way it works is this:

you set an HP value that if your homunc hits or falls below, your creator instantly casts "resurrect homunc". however, your homunculus HAS to die before the cast time goes off, or nothing is achieved. also when it IS achieved, i got it to work only a handful of times out of MANY. i tried it in different "hot" leveling spots, such as orc dungeon, hidden temple, wolf map 2 s of pront.

it would make no difference if you did code this in, as it would never work 100% of the time. you'd be lucky for it to work 5% of the time...and i mean LUCKY.

i will now go attempt auto-feeding and see what happens. from what i've researched, both of these are officially seen as "botting" and therefor should get your booty kicked from heRO. i don't even see how that could be questioned.

EDIT: autofeeding IS botting...there's no script for it. so you need a 3rd party program. to effectively take advantage of auto-rez, you'd also need a 3rd party program.

[GM-Pandora]

You don't need to research autofeeding, it is obviously forbiden. We're not done with the heRO ai (help appreciated xD), nor with the rules exactly but using bot program was never planned to be allowed nor will it ever be

[Craix]

Fao was just trying to prove that autofeeding and rezing is practically impossible with any of the current AI programs without an outside program, which kinda makes most of the arguements against it moot anyways.

hehe I said moot