About the FISH

[Général_Argos]

When fighting in woe damages are not displayed for multiple reasons (otherwise the screen would be filled up with numbers, not knowing exactly the damage dealt add some strategic).

BUT there is a way to know if someone is taking a lot of damage, and that one is the sprite of white pots being spamed

With the arrival of the fish on the server, some things have changed.

-Now we cant see if someone use healing items in woe cuz fish have no sprite.
-Less need for pots, this mean:

- No need to buy pots. This makes the usefullnes of zeny going down.
- Less need for alchimist doing pots. This isnt a big thing but it lowers the interaction between players

- Gathering fish is a LOT faster than hunting herbs and making pots or hunting zeny and buying pots. Also when fishing u can get freebies like obb, opb, oca...
- Using a fish heals HP AND SP, wich mean no need to bother getting blue pots and white pots, and no need for 2 quickslot for pots, just one is enough

Ok, lets stop bashing against fishing.
I think the fishing system is good and add cool features on the server, but I think he need to be rebanlaced.

When adding something new that has the same purpose that something already existhing (ie. fish and pots), what is cool is when the new thing has something unique. That thing with fish is the no-sprite-thing. That thing is a HUGE advantage during woe. What I suggest, ISNT removing the no-sprite-thing (because fishs would had nothing "special"). What I suggest is to DOUBLE THE WEIGHT of the fish!! That way fish would still continue to have their unique special-thing-that-makes-them-unique, but people wont be able to carry as much of them.

What will it bring:

- People will need to make a choice (zomg!)Wich is : Have no sprite healing items or have sprite healing items but carry more of them.
- That will make people coming back using some pots, and therefore, cancel or lower some of the "bad" things that came up with the arrival of fish.



I discussed with some people, and I think some people are thinking like that too. With this post I want to "officialize" the debate.

Feel free to add comments!

[Eldakar]

The only thing i find bad about fish is the no animaion thingy.

Either put an animation or double there weight.

[razoredge]

Personally, I don't like the suggestion of doubling it's weight.

Weights in comparison:

Red Potion -> 7
Guppy -> 5

Orange Potion -> 10
grape -> 2
Trout -> 15

Yellow Potion -> 13
grape juice -> 4
Bass = 20

White potion -> 15
Blue potion -> 15
Salmon -> 30

(those are just the base fish don't feel like doing the others atm)

Now I'm going by purely a leveling stand point. If you double the weight of the fish then you're essentially making us levelers have to hold 2 white pots instead of 1 for 1 fish. This doesn't help us at all since while leveling you get drops that add to your weight quickly and that means we'd have to run to the kafra more often to dump stuff off and hold less healing items which would greaten the chance of a user dying and losing experience.

As far as your comment of alchemist not being needed, unless pandora chose to remove the feature I do believe alchemists on the alchemist ranking get more healing for the pots they make depending on their rank. If a made pot heals more than a fish I don't see why having the fish would be better aside from it's capacity to heal sp too... but wait... if a salmon = the same as 1 white pot AND 1 blue pot then technically there's no reason for it to be a fish other than the "no animation". The same complaint could be said about ygg seeds. Berries have an animation and seeds don't (last I checked anyways).

Now from a woe standpoint...

If you're wailing on someone for a long period of time and they obviously aren't dying then there's two things that immediately come to mind... 1) they have a ghostring and your damage sucks if does anything to them at all, or 2) they're spamming either ygg seeds or fish. Obviously the thing to do then would be do more damage. I don't agree that fish's weight should be increased during woe either for the reason stated above in the leveling post. I find nothing wrong with it since it's part of the game and adds to the challenge. As you said woe is strategic, one thing you should include in your strategy is the fact that people are going to have fish and then include how to counter-act that. Not really complain that it's unfair <.< when it really isn't.

Also, it should be noted that when thinking about a change like this you should think of all aspects of the game leveling/pvp/woe instead of just one area when adding a change, unless the GM team can make it to where fish "magically" double their weight in woe castles only.

So in conclusion, I'm all for adding an animation, if it isn't too much work, but doubling their weight when it's pretty much the same thing as holding the pots I don't agree with.

[Lis and Olo]

I actually think this is a great idea. I understand Razor's POV. I mean heck, I spent a whopping 8,000,000z fishing when I was going from lvl 98 to 99. As a Vit Knight, I absolutely RELY on fish, and would cry if for instance there was no fishing quest, (I probably wouldn't but that would suck). This would definitely effect the amount of fish I could take with me while leveling, and it might even make me go to an alchemist for leveling pots and perhaps use fish for things like MVP hunting and PVP/WoE/other events. This way both pots and fish would have their own purposes to different people, and everyone would have use for both without either being unbalanced.

If Pand has a vote on this, I go with Krim.

Oh, and as a baby alchemist, I cant brew pots. Often there is absolutely no one selling blue pots in town for a big discount. This means I have to go to yuno and drop 5000z for each one! Even with the 25% discount skill I'm spending hundreds of thousands just to throw some blue pots at my friends. If there was more reason for people to sell blues in town then that would make things easier for chemists that cant brew for themselves but still chuck pots.

PS> Don't you think this thread belongs under the suggestions topic?

[Général_Argos]

Message to everyone:

Please, don't start with the "the game is already hard, why make it harder?"

When discussing about the pros and cons, think about the game in general and not how this will affect u char >.> My suggestion is to find a way to balance and to make the game more fair. Take in consideration also that fish are customs from the server, they are an ADD, the game is supposed to be playable without them, so fish are in no way "essential" to anyone.

Thanx all =D

[ShadesOfBlue]

I dont see how makeing fish heavier benifits or makes anything more fair for the strictly or mainly PvMer that espescially goes for the ones who cant carry alot of tonnage.

[razoredge]

Quote:Please, don't start with the "the game is already hard, why make it harder?"

My post was never to be seen as "the game is already hard, why make it harder." (guessing more or less since atm I'm the only one against the "double the weight" suggestion) Fish are a convenience that were added in by Pandora and the staff.

Quote:When discussing about the pros and cons, think about the game in general and not how this will affect u char >.> My suggestion is to find a way to balance and to make the game more fair. Take in consideration also that fish are customs from the server, they are an ADD, the game is supposed to be playable without them, so fish are in no way "essential" to anyone.

Now you say ?not how this will affect your character? yet by doubling the weight that affects your character and really only affects ONE aspect of the game since your complaint/suggestion is about WoE only. You never said why it would be good to double the weight of fish for leveling purposes or pvp purposes (although your woe purpose I suppose could be included as a pvp purpose as well) but that's how your post is being taken.

Quote:I mean heck, I spent a whopping 8,000,000z fishing when I was going from lvl 98 to 99.

I?m going to try using sal/kamon?s #?s here (unsure which posted XD).

8,000,000 z fishing = 800 sets of 100 bait = 80,000 fish (pretending you don?t get any other items and you ALWAYS catch something)

4,000,000 z buying whites alone = 3,333.33 (runs on but you get the idea)

4,000,000 z buying blues alone = 800

Now as we all know your chance of getting Salmon 100% of the time is pretty much non-existent. You?re going to get guppies, and trout, and bass; however, from the fishing I did today it would equate that you would end up with a slightly larger sum of salmon than you would white pots & blue pots? (I?d actually have to have 8 mil z and have to sit in front of the fishing hole all day to make sure).

Quote:Often there is absolutely no one selling blue pots in town for a big discount.

Part of that problem could stem off the fact of the low drop rates from normal monsters:

Acidus (Water) (1.5%), Caterpillar (0.12%), Dark Priest (1%), Doppelganger (60%), Mobster (0.6%), Nightmare (1%), Nightmare Terror (0.5%), Sage Worm (0.4%), Succubus (10%), Tao Gunka (60%), [Old Blue Box] (0.29%), [Old Purple Box] (0.31%), [Gift Box] (1.00%)

Even with a 3x increase (if it really even is 3x as some drops aren?t 3x higher) blue pots are hard to come by. Unless of course you hunt Succubus all day (if the drop is 30% haven?t checked as I don?t have access in game atm since I?m at work XD)

So I can see where part of that problem comes from ):

I don?t honestly see how the following quote comes into effect:

Quote: This makes the usefullnes of zeny going down.

Because sometimes you pretty much end up spending the same each way with the possibility of the fish getting you a bit more for your money. Zeny is ALWAYS useful to have don?t see how it ever loses it usefulness unless you have like 50 billion <_<;;

If anything as I said before just add an animation to it and leave the fish as is.

[crossmesh]

Fishes are already to heavy for me
But i ALWAYS thought that fishes ruined the balance of the game a bit.

I mean the bait is way to cheap, seing as you could get up to 100 salmon if your lucky for 10k, wihle if you have to buy it, it would cost about 500k, 50X more expensive.

Anyone else seeing how totally unfair it is? Not to mention the only existance for alchemists have been totally reduced to making pots for mages and archer class because of lack on str.

The whole fishing thing was way to unba;anced and unfair to begin with

[SwiftStrike]

I'm not going to read all of that, double the weight or at least make it 1.5x heavier, make an animation and I'll be happy.

[Eldakar]

First of all, MAKE AN ANIMATION!!!
We want to know if they pot/fish.

Thanks.