WoE Stuff

[ChaosPrince]

Alister Wrote:Yestarday MVP cards, today Miniboss, tomorrow thara and marc.

lol, novice WoE!!! stab with the dagger!

[Gojira]

Alister Wrote:Yestarday MVP cards, today Miniboss, tomorrow thara and marc.

Why don't we make two separate WoE? Like Regular and Vanilla WoE in two different days with two different castles. So everyone could decide which WoE focus in. And ban just some of MVP cards (GTB/Hibi), because since mvp cards are banned, I have no more reason to farm MvP. Oh, about exp in WoE, is just another way to leech lazy people ( cuz uberexp in Mini-Muspel seems not enough ). Leechers in WoE don't ruin the whole WoE because they just sit at the entrance. BUT in BG, leechers only make team unbalance.

Isn't it funny how you didn't say this when MVP cards and god items were removed when you had none yet now that you'll lose your gr/dr you're against it...

To everyone who's in the same situation as Leo, do the server a favor and think about the actual balance of things before thinking of what impact a change like this could have on your own person. If you want MVPs to stay out of WoE, gr/dr should suffer the same fate by any form of logic.

As for having 2 types of WoE, it's useless as things are right now. The only guild other then Orion that has a chance to compete in current WoE is Ordo and you guys don't seem interested in trans. In other words, what's needed is a chance for new player to show up in WoE. It's pretty much a no-brainer for new players if they want to choose between MvPs or none when they start WoE somewhere.

As for leechers, I'm pretty sure they're more interested in WoE points for stuff like buff scrolls rather then the exp. About BG, if we had an actual fun BG system (zephyrus is what most private servers use) like most server have (and a decent priced BG), you'd probably see way less leechers but the odds of this happening here are very low.

[Alister]

Quote:Isn't it funny how you didn't say this when MVP cards and god items were removed when you had none yet now that you'll lose your gr/dr you're against it...

What
are
u
talking
about?

I'm for the #LET'S GET BACK MVP CARDS IN WOE even if i have 0 of these.

Quote:To everyone who's in the same situation as Leo, do the server a favor and think about the actual balance of things before thinking of what impact a change like this could have on your own person. If you want MVPs to stay out of WoE, gr/dr should suffer the same fate by any form of logic.

To everyone who's in the same situazion as Amj, do the server a favor and think more before write as judge.

[Laenaya]

I'm not gonna vote because the options don't match what I'd pick, but will give my opinion, which is basically what some people have already said. Also, just to remind something Pandora already said in other threads (I know some of you came back recently), I've fixed the official BG modes (KvM, Tierra and Flavius) and made my own "Mini WoE FE" (similar to "Rush" in servers with eAmod emulator) script for heRO, they're currently on the test server waiting for a test session in heRO's environment (It has been already tested on my test server). I might make a "Mini WoE SE" soon as well, if the GM team, and players of course, want it.

1. Some MvP and Miniboss cards should be disabled: I would consider disabling mainly GTB, Ghostring and Deviling, possibly FBH as well. I personally would just block everything since it's easier, but taking into consideration that most cards have a downside or useless effects in WoE, it's best to discuss which cards are game-breaking and should be disabled and which shouldn't.

2. Ghostring Scrolls should either not be obtainable or disabled in WoE/BG: You can keep it as a MvP drop or something for people to use it in PvM, I don't see it as a problem out of WoE/BG. But having Unfrozen effect and Ghost property in an armor, in PvP/GvG environment, is just not right. I'm aware that it can be countered, but if we're talking about disabling the card, the scroll should obviously be disabled as well.

3. Exp in WoE is whatever, you can kill a mob of noobish monsters (5~10 High Orcs for example), or an Anubis or whatever, and gain more exp than in WoE. The main problem is that people leech War Points for goodies such as Buff (and Ghostring?) scrolls, etc. Now in BG I would either remove it or make it very very low. Low enough to not encourage players to join the event ONLY for exp.

4. The prices for BG gears should indeed be lowered: It's not in the list but has been mentioned and I agree that it should be done, for the lower-tier gears at least. Prices could be negotiated, maybe something like 100 points for non-Glorious Shoes/Garments and 200 points for non-Glorious Armors, just so it's not too easy, nor too hard (these are just examples, actual BGers could throw their opinion there).

5. WoE SE: It could be a great incentive, both for old and for new players. Inactive oldies might come back to try it and WoE guilds looking for a stable server may join as well. In this case, MvP and Miniboss cards don't even need to be disabled since it requires more teamwork and organization than ubber gears (actual WoE players feel free to tell me if I'm wrong). The mapflags are basically the same as WoE FE so that shouldn't be a problem, but the script probably has never been used on heRO, meaning it'd require some time for testing (a trial period, on which no guild keeps the castle in the end?) and whatnot. Once again I can offer a hand to fix and test things.

[noah18cars]

Laenaya: The problem with BG on heRO doesn't lie only on the types of BG offered, the hourly BG with BG keys is also a huge mistake. heRO is what, 8 years old? Do you really think that any veterans who want to find a server where they can BG and WoE are going to settle on the server where they have to wait 10 minutes just to start a BG, and need an item to start the BG in the first place? No, they're going to settle on a server that uses the common sense 'when enough people join we start' approach. Veteran WoE players joining a Low Rate server on a 10 year old game rather than a mid or high rate is already unlikely enough. Now you put asinine time-draining obstacles in their way, and the chances of any players like that settling here are slim to none. The 'no keys after 40 minutes' thing is absolutely horrible as well. Even if you get in a rhythm of using the keys, having a 25 minute break in the middle of your BGing is enough to make anybody want to just stop. If heRO is set on using the Key system, the only way I could possibly see it working at all is by drastically lowering the price of BG keys and removing the hourly WoE completely so there are no unnecessary 25 minute breaks. Also, the price for items needs to be lowered and the wait time badly needs to be reduced.
The exp and rewards from WoE are negligible as far as I'm concerned. Any hardcore player can farm 100x more exp and 5x more rewards in the hour it takes to WoE. The true problem, as you said, is the lack of WoE SE. Between WoE FE and the infuriatingly time-inefficient BG I'd argue that heRO is past the realm of veteran players just not joining, and entering the realm of veteran players telling all of their friends what a bad server for WoE this is. Common sense BG changes and WoE SE should be THE SERVER'S TOP PRIORITIES. I know it's hard to process on heRO but NO MORE CUTE HATS, NO MORE ADORABLE SEASONAL QUESTS!!!!!1! This desperately needs to be fixed ASAP as it does more damage to the server's reputation and population every day.
Last thing I want to say is, and I'll put this in bold caps because it's very important IF YOU NEED PEOPLE ON THE TEST SERVER, THEN BE LOUD ABOUT IT!!!!1!!11! Advertise on the forums, advertise on main, AGGRESSIVELY PURSUE TESTERS. 99% of the server didn't even know new BG was on the test server, I'd argue 80% of people don't know the test server exists. Yet, when Pandora asked for 18 people to join her party to test new party size limit, she got it within 3 minutes, right after a server reboot...

[Seth~]

@Gojira what do other server do with these banned cards, aka what happens if you get a GR card for instance? NPC it?

[Laenaya]

noah18cars Wrote:...

The types of BG offered isn't the main issue, but it's still an issue. Ask around and you'll see that many players are tired and bored of KvM long time, not to mention the lack of BG mapflag, while others don't even join in because they think KvM isn't worth their time/resources. The delay, keys and all that stuff are issues as well of course, but adding existing solutions to a couple of issues is welcome, I suppose.

I agree with you about most veterans not joining the server with the simple addition of WoE SE, but I only said that -some- people -may- join/come back, not that they surely will

As for the "new BG's", the original thread on the T&D section has been posted by (ex)GM-Lassander in June 2013, and I don't think I can tell the whole server about things in there, nor simply ask everyone to come and help testing (it's in the T&D rules ). Now that this is (or should be) a priority, and known, some people may (hopefully) join in and help testing it, to get it added to the real server asap.

[Gojira]

Alister Wrote:

Quote:Isn't it funny how you didn't say this when MVP cards and god items were removed when you had none yet now that you'll lose your gr/dr you're against it...

What
are
u
talking
about?

I'm for the #LET'S GET BACK MVP CARDS IN WOE even if i have 0 of these.

Quote:To everyone who's in the same situation as Leo, do the server a favor and think about the actual balance of things before thinking of what impact a change like this could have on your own person. If you want MVPs to stay out of WoE, gr/dr should suffer the same fate by any form of logic.

To everyone who's in the same situazion as Amj, do the server a favor and think more before write as judge.

It's kind of funny how you rely on shit talking when you get told the truth you don't want to hear. Votes are public btw meaning I can see what you voted for which is opposite to what you just said (you want them still banned in retro yet come claiming you want them active everywhere which is kind of hilarious since I'm aware that you only do retro so once again, it proves that you vote in your own interests).

If you want to do any form of personnal attack towards my person, start by posting elaborate analysis of why you want gr/dr still allowed or whatever you want in general. It's very simple to just vote but it's exactly why I hate votes for matters like these, people don't express the reasons behind what they vote for. As far as I'm concerned, if you're unable to do that, just don't post replies to anything I say, it's just a waste of time to read and proves what I claimed about you only thinking of your own self over the server.

Edit: Oh and while we're at it, please don't turn this thread into another attempt to bash me, if you have anything to tell me, you know my in-game names or you can ask for me on main.

[Gojira]

Seth~ Wrote:@Gojira what do other server do with these banned cards, aka what happens if you get a GR card for instance? NPC it?

They just have a more limited use. Some of the servers allow them in BG/PvP, some even remove them from BG, it varies from server to server but what most servers have in common is that they ban cards that become broken in smale scale WoE because they're not easely countered in that environment.

The big issue here is that saying some cards would only be limited to PvP is like saying they become a collector's item since the amount of PvPer's here is about 0.

Anyway, yes it's kind of sad when you drop the said cards and you know they're of limited use compared to what they normally are but keep in mind that those items were designed to be use in large scale WoEs (at least 50v50), they become a much bigger problem in small scale battles like it's been on this server for about the past 5 years.

[Gojira]

Laenaya Wrote:

noah18cars Wrote:...

The types of BG offered isn't the main issue, but it's still an issue. Ask around and you'll see that many players are tired and bored of KvM long time, not to mention the lack of BG mapflag, while others don't even join in because they think KvM isn't worth their time/resources. The delay, keys and all that stuff are issues as well of course, but adding existing solutions to a couple of issues is welcome, I suppose.

I agree with you about most veterans not joining the server with the simple addition of WoE SE, but I only said that -some- people -may- join/come back, not that they surely will

As for the "new BG's", the original thread on the T&D section has been posted by (ex)GM-Lassander in June 2013, and I don't think I can tell the whole server about things in there, nor simply ask everyone to come and help testing (it's in the T&D rules ). Now that this is (or should be) a priority, and known, some people may (hopefully) join in and help testing it, to get it added to the real server asap.

There's another issue you aren't mentionning which is consumables. Most servers run the code made by zephyrus for BG which also has Velma, an npc that sells supplies for badges (that can be BG only for example, so that players still need to farm for actual WoE supplies but that let's them freely play when they're in BG).

Also, the fact that this type of BG gives out badges as reward which can be used to purchase any gear for any class means that people can stick to playing classes they enjoy playing (which makes it less of a chore when you need alot of items) or that people who get bored of playing one class too much can swap without any form of penalty.