BG

[Ayydan]

Personally, I don't have a problem with the massive exp cut on BGs. However, that won't fix dicing in any way.

The main issue is that BGs are both easy to chain and required to do in order to get the entry level pvp gear in a quick manner, and that there are no unique incentives aside from BG points to do it.

Sure, you could say the leaderboard is an incentive, but it's not related to skill or wins, it's just a matter of time. Someone who always loses that played for a month will still be over someone with a 100% winrate that played for a week. For someone who wants to get on the leaderboard, dicing actually helps, as people are more likely to stay and do more BGs if they can just go watch some youtube videos while passively getting BG points.

Of course, just pointing problems isn't going to fix anything. My proposal is to add Daily/Weekly/Monthly leaderboards based on a single digit winrate (i.e. 0.63 and 0.68 would both count as 0.6 winrate) and the number of BGs done, with a minimum of BGs to prevent people from simply winning one and forgetting. This way, people would want to win and to do as many BGs as possible thus potentially solving both dicing and interest issues.

[sheam]

All right.

The biggest thing that struck me was having no warning about the change.

The demi% exp from quests are gone now. I used that for puppies, healer daily, and other such quests. I had grown quite used to this. Intended feature or not, I'll just get used to it again. But I'm certainly not forced to like it. =P =P =P

I feel as though this change was not done to encourage more legit bg battles. If it were, it would provide more incentive for winning. The only advantage I see from this is to restrict BG as an avenue of leveling and provide more incentive to partying in "party places."


So you think BG is a joke. Why? Dicing, This Team Wins, these are all based on the honor system.

If you don't want to dice, don't! At any time, you are well within your right to just.. Not Care about dicing, and start attacking.

Those who are strong will win. Those who are not strong will lose. Those who AFK or do not battle on purpose should be reported.




And that is pretty much the sum of the "you took my toy away " feels I have for this change.

But let's be honest. You can tweak it from dusk till dawn, but radical changes like these, while hard to swallow, will produce results. Let's give it a chance to settle in and see how it works. =)

I hope this does bring the glory back to BG!

[hachigatsu30]

(08-17-2016 01:46 AM)sheam Wrote:  Those who AFK or do not battle on purpose should be reported.

...Wa- Why?

(08-17-2016 01:46 AM)sheam Wrote:  I hope this does bring the glory back to BG!

No, this update feels to me like bringing the glory back to Nameless and Thors and Thana and Nidhog and their siblings, which was gone when people overglorified BG.

[Poofy]

For what it's worth people are still playing BG. I hope that lasts because for me I just felt this was a wasted opportunity. I'm not exactly upset about the loss of experience, it's more so what that loss implies when the server already struggled to retain people who actually cared about the game mode. If people are still playing with semi-frequency a month from now then I'm happy and none of what I say really matters. In the end,

(08-17-2016 01:46 AM)sheam Wrote:  The biggest thing that struck me was having no warning about the change.

This was my biggest gripe.

[The Legendary Joe]

(08-17-2016 01:46 AM)sheam Wrote:  So you think BG is a joke. Why? Dicing, This Team Wins, these are all based on the honor system.

If you don't want to dice, don't! At any time, you are well within your right to just.. Not Care about dicing, and start attacking.

Very true. It also tends to piss off the people who were doing the Honor system and tends to get you on a Kill on Sight type of thing from everyone involved. Some people who like dicing so much will outright let you die after being attacked by the entirety of the other team, before going back to dicing like they woulda after you had been eliminated.

Some people told me before that they dice for efficiency when they're keying. It makes the rounds go faster when everyone follows it, so they can get the next round going and keep cranking out more and more BG points. With my limited play time, and my complete and utter dislike for the PVP scene, I could get behind it for the sake of those super sexy weapons for Demi-human hunting in PVM. Win or Lose, people still gets points, Sure, winners get more points but still.

The main feature from Battle grounds has always been the Equips you could get from it. Why these Equips for the majority of things are LEAGUES better than any +10 4 slot carded equip you might have made in the distant past. Like the Glorious Katar is better than a slotted and carded infiltrator. That stuffs kinda hard to get considering it's an expensive card rate drop, and the Slot enchantment is expensive due to the RNG of the slotters. A +10 Staff of Recovery just barely outshines a glorious cure wand at safe refines.

[Aaronock]

Guys, BG still gives experience.

But it gives a lot less.

Kiyo's post kind of explains it best.

It might be better to think of BG as a supplement to your experience bar instead of the main way to move it.

Personally, I don't even have an issue with dailies like Puppies + Item of the Day existing. Heck, I'm even open to us having the item turn in stuff, but I kinda wonder if that might make your leveling too linear and boring like most other MMO's or not. However, this isn't really the topic for discussing such opinions so I'll conclude my post here. :3

[Demogorgon]

(08-17-2016 03:57 AM)The Legendary Joe Wrote:  

(08-17-2016 01:46 AM)sheam Wrote:  So you think BG is a joke. Why? Dicing, This Team Wins, these are all based on the honor system.

If you don't want to dice, don't! At any time, you are well within your right to just.. Not Care about dicing, and start attacking.

Very true. It also tends to piss off the people who were doing the Honor system and tends to get you on a Kill on Sight type of thing from everyone involved. Some people who like dicing so much will outright let you die after being attacked by the entirety of the other team, before going back to dicing like they woulda after you had been eliminated.

Some people told me before that they dice for efficiency when they're keying. It makes the rounds go faster when everyone follows it, so they can get the next round going and keep cranking out more and more BG points. With my limited play time, and my complete and utter dislike for the PVP scene, I could get behind it for the sake of those super sexy weapons for Demi-human hunting in PVM.

No Offense but this is a prime example of what gives the anti dice coalition (including me) such headaches.

Not only did the dicing meta ruin a significant amount of fights, you even get shunned by the community for playing a gamemode as intended if you ignore dice and just go for the throaty, which in turn reduces your fun and motivation quickly.

Fact is if you divide players into 3 Groups ( 1. people who wanna fight, 2. people who wanna dice, 3. people who dont care) theres bound to be frustration and bad mood if players 1. and 2. get mixed),
but why cater to a group that plays a gamemode the way its obiously not developerintended?!

If you wanna afk and watch loot rain play hugel races or farmville /rant

I get the argument that since you cant really control this behaviour you cant really sanction it but at least shun it. Make a Statement, both anti dice players and (if any) supporting gms too.

And to the dice players, maybe just think about it.
At one time you will have that op gear since you diced for months and what then? Most of it is purely pvp based, so a) where will you use your shiny toy if dicing is the new meta and b) how will you use it efficciently if you never even played the class in a PvP Environment.

[sheam]

@Hachi

No problem! I interpret the change as trying to offer more legitimacy to battle grounds victories by refocusing its attraction /from/ leveling and grinding /to/ pvp that yields pvp rewards. In a perfect world, we'll want to see Battlegrounds as less "imma get my levelz n' gear" and more "kickin' dat butt and earning mah' lootz."

If you are in a Tierra, and a person thinks they have an unfavorable position on their team, they may feel inclined to think "meh screwz it. i didn't get SSJ3 Shigeru on my team, so imma afk." (Just as an example.)

Let's analyze why a report would need to be made.

7 people want to dice, and 1 person wants to fight. That one person decides, "Ya know what. There's nothing against the rules to fight in BG." Then, 7 people all enter an agreement to fight this one person and single them out; as Joe pointed out.

What's the solution? To keep fighting. You're still winning or losing at the same rate. In fact, those who fight and utilize PVP gear have a (spoiler incoming) better chance at winning.

So after analyzing, once more people aggro the BG scene, all that's left are people not pulling their weight. Its ok to not be as good as others, or to not use pots, or to come to BG naked, but its not ok to AFK, walk in circle, not heal, not support, not attack... We as players see this as an instant party kick if we were leveling, and in BG we can't. So therefore, policing is required to some degree to set an example.

We very much do agree that this change certainly does encourage partying in "party places" such as the ones you listed. =D

Thank you hachi, I was a bit vague.

@Joe
The best way, to combat the added efficiency of dicing instead of fighting, is better rewards for winning. That may be a shot in the dark, you do have more experience than me at this, but I say it because it "fits best."

--

I will point out, however, the most positive thing that comes from removing Demi Human% gain from Exp? Is that you can now replace these slots with actual pvp gear as intended in battle grounds.

Like I said, I'm frownie face about it, but I for one do want to see more pew pew in bgs. Its a necessary sacrifice.

[The Roger]

(08-17-2016 06:03 PM)sheam Wrote:  What's the solution? To keep fighting. You're still winning or losing at the same rate. In fact, those who fight and utilize PVP gear have a (spoiler incoming) better chance at winning.

Yes, yeeesss!!!

(08-17-2016 10:14 AM)Demogorgon Wrote:  And to the dice players, maybe just think about it.
At one time you will have that op gear since you diced for months and what then? Most of it is purely pvp based, so a) where will you use your shiny toy if dicing is the new meta and b) how will you use it efficciently if you never even played the class in a PvP Environment.

Exactly!

[The Legendary Joe]

(08-17-2016 06:27 PM)The Roger Wrote:  

(08-17-2016 06:03 PM)sheam Wrote:  What's the solution? To keep fighting. You're still winning or losing at the same rate. In fact, those who fight and utilize PVP gear have a (spoiler incoming) better chance at winning.

Yes, yeeesss!!!

(08-17-2016 10:14 AM)Demogorgon Wrote:  And to the dice players, maybe just think about it.
At one time you will have that op gear since you diced for months and what then? Most of it is purely pvp based, so a) where will you use your shiny toy if dicing is the new meta and b) how will you use it efficciently if you never even played the class in a PvP Environment.

Exactly!

I have plans for a +10 GloriousHoly Avenger for a Grand cross (or rapier, same thing minus the pressure buff on the avenger). Seems like the best possible weapon forGrand cross in terms of attack and magic attack power.

I have plans for Sniping down demi-human MVPs with the +10 glorious hunter bow with that massive demi-human atk boost, that +20 boost to double strafing, and I can demob with the +1% per refine boost to crit damage with sharp shooting. IMO, PVM has always been more about efficiency than PVP.

I know it's meant for PVP and all but since the gears are so powerful that Hydra card is pretty much obsolete, you're gonna get people coming into it purely for that stuff.