Religous views

[mahawirasd]

very well put Whispers... <3

yes, i see how in that scope it does require you to hold a belief in the life(s) after this one or lack thereof.

So, are you ready to devote yourself in it's entirety to the dharma in this life or are you just slowly converging on that path so that you may do so in the next life(s)?


-w-

[Whispers]

I'm still trying to find a lineage to follow.??Although I consider myself non-partisan I still need proper instruction and support.??I see differing lineages of all faiths as adding to and taking away from the original doctrine.??Jesus Christ never said follow the way of Martin Luther or John Calvin.??However, these men felt it necessary to reestablish the faith in their vision.

The same is true for Buddhism.??There are so many sects out there putting emphasis on this and that while removing prominence from what they feel to be arbitrary or superfluous it's insane.??I refuse to follow one way and say everyone else is wrong.??Who's to say that that one thing that differentiates my chosen sect from theirs isn't something the Buddha himself put a lot of stock in???Henceforth I do as the Buddha requests:

?Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.?

The Buddha even asked his direct disciples - those who learned directly from him - to question what he taught.??Buddhism is absolutely against any kind dogmatism or blind faith.??The Buddha felt that only through personal reflection and acceptance of the soundness of a theory can one truly believe it.??Being pressed upon by the clergy to believe this or that because it is in the Bible will incontrovertibly raise doubt.??A teacher must rely on the intellect of his pupil to make the proper decision.??Then again, in Buddhism you have infinity to redo it in case you get it wrong.??=p

In that I have been trying to find the proper teacher and community I have let my practice slacken, unfortunately.??I used to be of the intermediate scope.??I practiced and went to pujas (prayer recitation at the dharma center) everyday (even days when no one else was able to come - Tuesday LoL ).??The dharma center was my second home.??Wake up, go to work, go home, bathe, go to the center.??I was so regular I was given a key to the center and trusted with many things.??However, in light of a few things I left this tradition [another term for lineage].

This was the New Kadampa Tradition - the NKT - and there were many things that did not mesh with me.??The first was that every text studied in the NKT is an official NKT text which cost between fifteen and fifty dollars depending on the subject matter.??Every image offered is an official NKT image unless a thangka [cloth painting - loosely defined] or statue (which were imported by a single statue/thongka maker hand-selected by the NKT).??Everything offered was through Tharpa publications and was copyrighted.??Copyrights and religion doesn't sit well with me.??Albeit, all of this was done--on the surface--to ensure the authenticity and lucidity of the teaching (every book is written by one man, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, whom I still feel admiration for although not for the lineage he has founded).??I was told I can't go about making reproductions of the official NKT prayer songs or I'd be sued.

You see, we were trying to raise money for a new center as the concurrent one had grown too small for our ever-growing population.??I had made instrumental variations of our prayer songs on my computer in my spare time to listen to on my iPod.??I had the sheet music and I just threw it into FruityLoops and added a bit of arranging to fill it out without the lyrics.??I suggested I could do this to a few more prayer songs and we could sell them with all of the proceeds going to our center alone (as opposed to the NKT as a whole as everything else does).??One man piped up, "You can't do that!??That's copyright infringement!"??Although he was no official spokesperson for the NKT, he had been there for a great long while so I felt he probably knew what he was speaking of.

I still have all of the books I bought.??They are very good books which impart the Buddha's teachings very, very well.??Geshe-la (as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is known) is rather well-versed in the Dharma and a very good teacher.??However, they are strictly Mahayana--I'll get to that in a bit...

Another thing was that they charged money for everything.??In Buddhism nonetheless!??No one was ever turned away for not having money, but there, in the entry hall of the center, were two people at a table with the cash box open.??They were billed as "suggested donations," but those who attended frequently without donation were questioned.??I pitched in a lot around the center so I was never questioned.

The Buddha also said not to take part in rituals as these have nothing to do with escaping samsara.??They are empty acts of meaningless actions.??Although we may do it for him, in his name, so we may free ourselves from suffering, the only thing we need do is follow his instruction - which never included any ritual.
Now, when I say "ritual" I don't mean a sacrifice or anything.??LoL??I'm merely speaking of the aforementioned pujas.??Everyday the "Heart Jewel" puja is to be done by those in the NKT.??It's maybe half an hour long at the most.??Once a week one does "Wishfulfilling Jewel" which is an hour-long "Heart Jewel" with physical (as opposed to imagined) offerings to the Buddhas including food, drink, incense, etc..??Once a month NKT members do "Melodious Drum Victorious in All Directions" which is a three-hour-long puja for the Dharma protector Dorje Shugdan.??THREE HOURS!
The Dorje Shugdan thing is another reason I left but it is a huge thing within the Dharma community and you're better off Googling it than getting it from me.

The last reason I left was the Mahayana elitism.??There are three "types" of Buddhism - Hinayana (the "lesser" vehicle), Mahayana (the "greater" vehicle), and the Vajrayana (the "diamond" vehicle).??Both Hinayana and Mahayana practice Vajrayana.??The Nikaya (as I will continue to refer to the Hinayana as "Hinayana" is derogatory) differs from the Mahayana in only one way - that is the intention of attaining nirvana.??In the Mahayana one seeks nirvana not only to liberate himself but also in order to assist others in their liberation whereas in the Nikaya one merely seeks liberation so as to free himself from samsara.??It's a tiny detail but the Mahayana sees the Nikaya's aim as selfish and grounded in the delusion of self [differentiating oneself from others].??It is believed by the Mahayanas that only one with the intent of helping others can attain nirvana as any other motivating factor has at least a hint of one or more of the mental poisons which hinder enlightenment.

This is something I don't exactly not believe--I see where the Mahayanas are coming from--but not something I wish to uphold--especially not to the NKT's standards.??The NKT lists leaving the Mahayana for the Hinayana as a serious downfall.??One so doing is subject to karma similar to abandoning Buddhism altogether.??I don't like that.??If the Nikaya really is the Hinayana (which literally translates to the "inferior vehicle") then would it be wrong to perhaps view it as a stepping stone to the Mahayana???After all, like I wrote earlier, we have until the end of endless time to get this right.??LoL

So, I'm beginning to become slightly partial to the Nikaya.??Afterall, the term "Nikaya" translates to "schools" in reference to the different Buddhist schools before the Mahayana/Hinayana split of the "common era".??Today only one Nikaya tradition stands, that is the Theravada.??Although there are many, many different types of Theravada; Therevada, nonetheless, is the last surviving school of Nikaya thought.


I just received two Theravadan books by mail and I already like them more than most other Mahayana books I have.??Whereas Mahayana books are mostly commentaries on sutras written by ancient Mahayanas, the Theravadans only concern themselves with the teachings of the Buddha himself.??It's like talking about Jesus instead of Joseph Smith.


So, to answer your question, my practice has slackened so much that I'm holding onto the initial scope just so I don't fall away from Buddhism altogether.??Once I find a proper sangha (Buddhist community - the third of the three jewels [or "triple gem" in Theravada]; Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha) it will be much, much easier as that is what the sangha is for: support.??The Buddha teaches the Dharma and the Sangha helps each other practice.??The Buddha jewel, of course, representing any teacher.??



On an aside, if you want to know more about any of this just Google it.??Hinaya, Mahayana, Vajrayana, Theravada, Three Jewels/Triple Gem, or the New Kadampa Tradition.??I'd highly recommend Googling the New Kadampa Tradition if you're interested.??Another reason I left them is due to their cult status in the field of popular religion.

[EDIT]

Sorry I write so much.??

[mahawirasd]

lol it's ok. People could attest that i too like walls of text...

anyhoo, thank you for the insight. I have heard/read/studied Buddhism a bit here and there. Nowhere near to your extent of knowledge, but sufficient to understand what you are talking about.

First off the bat would be "sects". IMHO most "religions" are but "sects" or re-formulation of previous belief(s).
If i was so brave as to retell the advent of religion i would say it first happened when man started to flock in a community and the first "sign" would be "fire"; most probably sparked by a lightning hitting a tree. That red fruit upon the tree which imparted knowledge to humans, or at least when humans learned to harness it "fire" turned out to be very instrumental. So instrumental even, especially in preparing food, that perhaps human intelligence started with it. Cooked food meant less energy spent on digesting, thus more energy available for the advancement of humans (probably started with basic tools which led to abstract thoughts, etc).
Anyway, starting out from basic mysticism up to the GUT of religion (monotheism), there has and probably always will be other people with their own view on things. Thus the many "versions" or "sects".

I wouldn't go so far as saying "all religions are true", well they might be 'true' in their own terms i'll give them that, but not necessarily always 'true'. But i am still naive enough to believe that "most religions were based on good intentions". Alas it is always wise to remember that "the road to hell is lined with good intentions"

anyway, as Lord Acton said: "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" and paired with how the "priest" class (starting from the first one who handled the fire) has always been given a higher pedestal than mere citizens (sometimes in the rank of kings or even higher), i wouldn't be surprised at all on how things turn out.

One of the main reason i myself believe that the way Buddhism is practiced is not for me is mainly because of how the monks are told to live. Not that i don't agree with self-restraint or the notion that religious leaders should be humble, i actually applaud the notion that monks have to "beg" so to speak for their food. BUT it is my believe that one should try their best to not be a burden to society, especially in the path to enlightenment. I agree with the notion that not everyone can or even should be a monk in this lifetime as they also have to be in tune with the world, especially their families. And I understand the notion that to shy away attachments is to relieve oneself from worldly jobs, but i believe one should be able to support oneself and still be able to rid oneself from worldly attachments. Thus one would understand that one's choice to remain existent bears a subsistence cost and that one should try one's best to bear that cross and still attempt to free one's self from that burden. Basically i believe that although one may not be able to choose on many things (birth, parents, general upbringing, etc.), one still has a choice and that by having a choice one is held accountable for that choice. I acknowledge that many things may not be up to us, especially force majeur events, but i believe that to keep on living is a choice and that we are culpable for that choice.

Anyhoo (sorry i tend to stray... a lot... /heh, i've talked with Buddhists regarding monks and their way of life and to some extent i can understand how having handphones might help them in setting up meetings etc and how people nowadays tend to give money rather than food. And i understand to some extent the need to copyright, but i believe in a level of tolerance, especially if conducted properly and does not stray from the original intentions.

Regarding the Nikayana, i personally believe that one should help one's self before attempting to help others. A basic approach i learned from emergency first aid training; Secure yourself, Secure the surroundings/victim(s), conduct first aid, call the emergency line.
Taken to religious believes i tend to opt for personal religions as i believe everyone has their own religion. One word from Buddha/Jesus/Mohammad/Moses/etc. can evoke 101 understanding from 100 people. Who is right?
Who knows. Thus one should be helpful to society, but never so much as to say that "my way is right, come with me if you want to be saved"...

as i said way beforehand, humans are limited and would be great if everyone realized that. We can't really really know anything. To know one thing we must assume a multitude of things. I'm not saying that one should not believe in anything, but rather that one should believe in whatever gives one piece of mind without disturbing others while still knowing the difference between "believing" and "knowing". I believe that once people realizes that distinction the world will become a much safer and more peaceful place.
Religious evangelism/recruitment is so absurd imho. I feel that man mostly believe in "power by numbers", and it is apparent that throughout history those with more power (usually markedly obvious by their numbers) tend to oppress those with less feeling that they are "right" and the others are "wrong", leaving us with the question: "what are you trying to do, hold elections in the afterlife?"

Thus i understand your need for support from a community, but i would say: be steadfast. One need not worry about being alone, birds of a feather will flock together. I understand the human need to commune, but that doesn't mean that one should be averse to being alone. Loneliness is probably the most frightening thing out there (the main reason most people are afraid of death and why religion sells), but it doesn't mean that one cannot master oneself (and the universe in the process /heh...


-w-

[Whispers]

Hmm...??Your burning bush theory is interesting.??Perhaps Moses was tending his flock in a storm when a bolt of lightening set the bush aflame.??Possibly the rain could constrain the bush from consumption by the fire...??Hmm, I'll have to think on that one.
I've had an idea for a really neat pseudo-anime loosely based on my religious beliefs - in that the we live in a world which countless gods, demigods, and spirits are vying over for control and worship.??It's been stewing in my head for the past few years.

I also wouldn't say that all religions are true.??Certainly Heaven's Gate and Scientology have things all wrong.??

The alms rounds are beneficial to everyone involved.??The monk is made more humble each time he must beg as opposed to working hard for things himself and the person offering increases their merit and positive karma by giving.??In providing this person the opportunity to give the monk also receives merit and good karma.??Alms are also provided to increase virtue in the giver and ensure the longevity of the monastic community which Indo-Asian cultures see as extremely important pieces in society.
Here are a couple of videos from a man I subscribe to on YouTube regarding the alms rounds:

Alms round in Thailand

Alms round in North Hollywood
This one just follows him about.??Not very informative.

In regards to your "headphones" comment, I'm not sure what you're alluding to, but if it's in regards to the use of technology; we're not Amish.??xD??If the above YouTube videos aren't enough of an attestation to that I also have days of Buddhist podcasts on my iPod.??Whereas one on the path to enlightenment should avoid all things material (a monk is actually to claim ownership to nothing but his begging bowl and robes in most traditions) but that doesn't mean to not make use of the wonderful things offered to us.??Cell phones, Internet, airplanes, automobiles, these are all very beneficial things invented and provided to the populace for making communication, the gathering of knowledge, and transportation easier.??We would be denying the inventors and proprietors their merit and good karma to avoid using these things!??
Many people actually believe these things to be an emanation of the "miracle powers" one obtains through strong effort in meditation and clear sight.??Would you like to travel three thousand miles in less than an hour???How about buying a rare item from an elusive designer in a foreign country???No problem!??LoL

As far as the Nikaya-helping-yourself-before-others comment that is greatly in tune with another thing the Buddha said:

?A man should first direct himself in the way he should go. Only then should he instruct others.?

I, too, believe that humans are limited.??It is, as well, a Buddhist belief (although I, of course, felt this way before being Buddhist).??We merely use logic and understanding to it's perceived greatest extent to make sense of the world.??Should something cease to make sense then we change our understanding so it does.??We don't hold onto reasonings when they begin to lose their validity.??This is as close as we can get to "knowing" although little can actually be known about what happens after we die until we actually get there.??

Support from the community is not the only necessity for the sangha.??Having a community in which you can see someone living the life and what it does for them invokes a wish to either obtain or avoid what they have.??With no one to look up to or away from it's hard to really want this or that.??So, I'm happy living this life without suffering.??I hope to obtain a more fortunate, monastic life in the next but I won't mind if that does not happen.

You see, another reasoning for the three scopes is the scope of ones own mind.??I love life, this world, and the people in it.??I love traveling, learning, and conversing.??I enjoy frittering away the hours with a book about "vegetarian" vampires, hobbits on a quest to destroy a ring, or a little boy and girl traveling between parallel universes to help the girls father end the tyranny of the creator's replacement (odd how that actually falls into Buddhist belief, Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials... What with God being old, frail, and slightly senile so close to death... huh - I never realized that ).??I love picking up my guitar and playing something pretty just before melting faces with dark, heavy metal.??\m/

I don't want to leave this world behind just yet.??I do notice its transitory nature and its wont for suffering, but I accept these.??I'm just having too much fun to leave just yet.??^_^

[mahawirasd]

good for you man
i'm having fun here too, especially in HeRO...

anyway, what i meant was HANDphones or in other words Cellphones...
yes i totally agree with your notion, and as i said the Buddhists here seem to accept the fact that their monks have cellphones to ease communication. And as you said, although they should avoid all things material, their owning a cellphone is solely to better serve the community and not for their own enjoyment. I'm not saying that monks should act like the amish, au contraire, i applaud their servitude and good will, i just popped up the convo to show how some uh shall we say "complications" may ensue...

i also have in my head the notion to write a book about the makings of man... but meh at the moment every time i go to a bookstore i feel as if so many are useless prints (some are gold, platinum even, but some are just meh...) and i would feel as if i'm littering the world even more with my book (if it ever gets published)

good to hear about good people on the other side of the world...


-w-