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+--- Thread: mirracle man (/showthread.php?tid=13376)
Pages: 1 2
mirracle man - Tsubaka - 02-13-2010 06:36 AM
Well we have this nice feature called mirracle man, creating a GJ from 1 holy water and 800z, this is nice, but there is a big disadvantage... I need to do 9 clicks to convert 1 water (he doesnt do bulk).
I propose enabeling him to preform bulked mirracles.
RE: mirracle man - Aaronock - 02-13-2010 10:46 AM
Or make it so you don't have to do 9 clicks could help...
But I like that bulk idea too :D
RE: mirracle man - Session - 02-13-2010 03:06 PM
that and -cough- reduce the price..like I suggested a month or so ago
RE: mirracle man - Zaratus - 02-13-2010 03:50 PM
Reduce it even more?
It is already too cheap. Make it higher pls.
RE: mirracle man - Irxallis - 02-15-2010 06:08 AM
Yes, definitely. Please enable bulk miracles... as it stands now this NPC is unusable (100 grape juices require 100 * Aqua Benedicta and... 900 clicks? -_-).
I agree with Ayantis too - because of grape juice efficiency it might not be a bad idea to increase the cost of a single miracle to 1k + holy water or even a bit higher (1100? 1200?).
RE: mirracle man - Manifus - 02-15-2010 07:08 PM
This is why I just use Dory, it is cheaper. D:
RE: mirracle man - Aaronock - 02-15-2010 07:11 PM
Wait, when we have it so easy to get fish, chocotarts, and hand made chocolates, you guys really think GJ costing 800z that big an issue and let's make it cost 1k?
LOL where is the logic again?
RE:??mirracle man - Namine - 02-15-2010 07:35 PM
Aaronock Wrote:here is the logic again?
Must have died with Surtur tonight~
RE: mirracle man - Irxallis - 02-16-2010 04:04 AM
The logic might be wrong, agreed... so please let me explain the reasoning and please be so kind to show me any errors you spot.
Everything I write below is about unranked blue pots.
---
Three assumptions. If those are wrong, you can stop reading - everything is wrong.
- Grape juice is more efficient than blue pots in terms of both SP recovery/weight and SP recovery/zeny spent
- To make a blue pot you require a blue herb (uncommon drop), empty bottle (common drop) and an alchemist. You have a % chance to succeed.
- To make a grape juice you require an empty bottle (common drop), 800 zeny and a non-dedicated acolyte (Aqua Benedicta). A miracle will succeed with 100% chance.
In other words, everybody has access to grape juice and not everybody has access to blue potions. Especially if you lack an alchemist. And grape juice is superior to blue pots, being also cheaper.
Now, easy availability of grape juices would make alchemists even more screwed than they are now. Therefore if we cannot do anything in SP recovery / weight ratio we can at least change SP recovery / zeny ratio so that blue pots are less efficient weight-wise but more efficient zeny-wise.
Right now I don't think anybody sane would, say, convert 1k empty bottles to 1k grape juices (which if bulk miracle system is implemented is something I intend to do). If this is a balancing factor between blue pots and grape juices - oh, yes, we have a cheap way of obtaining very efficient SP recovery, but it cannot be used as a bulk and is very unwieldy - than ok... though this way of balancing is not my favourite. But please, state it.
In case a bulk miracle system was implemented, blue pots are:
1) heavier
2) less efficient
3) more expensive
Thus the reasoning for increasing the cost for miracles. Is this logic THAT wrong?
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Personally, for me the main SP recovery item at the moment is a blue pot, because we made a dedicated alchemist having ~75% chance (enough for our needs) and blue herbs are extremely simple to get (stalker + Mosc3 = ~150 blue herbs per short run). Fish require searching the 9999 shops in Pront and they are usually heavy. The fact those 'better' fish are usually bought out is not helping - I care less for SP rec/zeny efficiency and more for SP rec/weight one.
About fish once more... I am a priest. If I need to recover SP using SP rec items it means I need to do something now or we have a dangerous situation, maybe even a wipe. I cannot afford getting frozen or go to sleep or whatever those fish do as side effects. And those lesser fish are (I hope -_-) less efficient SP rec/weight-wise than blue pots.
About the other items you stated... we don't have access to them. Maybe they drop using some kind of items, but we don't have them and probably wouldn't use them (all character slots are taken by equipment and we kind of lack ToH gear). Our only reliable SP recovery are blue pots and (possibly in the future) grape juice, because you always know how many you have, you can hoard them, they don't have hurtful side effects and you can get more when required in a snap.
Even if the sentence above is somewhat wrong, I think the balance between blue pots and grape juices is something to consider. The fact there are oh-so-many-other recovery items I think does not really matter in Miracle Man / alchemists balance.
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But if you don't mind enabling bulk miracles without increasing price, by all means, do so. I don't really care that much about grape juice price, I just want to be able to actually use it without losing whole day on clicking...
RE: mirracle man - Tsubaka - 02-16-2010 04:50 AM
Well, actualy the alchemists are still usefull for making blue pots, as the OC price of a blue pot is larger then the one of blue herbs. ^_^