Homunculus

[Jordan64]

ya, that would work, just make it illegal to change the homunculus's AI. that way the player has to command it to attack, instead of having AI so it would attack by itself. itd be pretty easy to spot if the homunculus is using AI or not

[Tion]

well that means Humunc would attack when we throw a bottle grenade... OR our plants we make from bio canalize attack it will attack :|?

[wussypuff]

there's a thread on this already, BUT, it's impossible to autofeed a homunculus without using a botting program. it's also impossible to autofeed without using a botting program.

since both of those are on the "do this and be banned" list, i think we're safe. just do normal bot checks with the players and it should be fine.

i've worked on custom AI scripts for another server and a gm asked us to find a way to code auto feed/auto rez programs. there's no way to do it in the MIR AI program (which is my fav) or others that we found.

also, to make it so your homunc won't attack your bio'd plants, put the plants in the script with YOUR name, but the monster's ID number. it will then not attack your plants

[GM-Ayu]

there's a thread on this already, BUT, it's impossible to autofeed a homunculus without using a botting program. it's also impossible to autofeed without using a botting program.

since both of those are on the "do this and be banned" list, i think we're safe. just do normal bot checks with the players and it should be fine.

i've worked on custom AI scripts for another server and a gm asked us to find a way to code auto feed/auto rez programs. there's no way to do it in the MIR AI program (which is my fav) or others that we found.

"AFKemist" exists. You can directly make the AI autofeed/autores, but you can make the AI control your character instead and autofeed that way. I'm not sure if I interpreted it right if that's the method, but AFKemist will level using homunculus and will appear like a bot, while not actually using a 3rd party program but a flaw in gravity design itself.

AFKemist is fixed on jRO on Jan 29, 2008.

The original article from jRO is found here (japanese)

AFKemist Bug

I'm personally *quite* happy that we don't have homunculus due to this news myself. Maybe it's a jRO error and it doesn't occur in eA but you never know

[wussypuff]

well until we get homuncs i'm taking a hiatus from the server. it's too frustrating to *try* to play alchemist when you get no buffs, no humoncs, and crappy job bonuses. ugh.

i don't see WHY homuncs are such a huge issue. they're NEEDED as an alchemist tool, which is WHY they were created and WHY alchemists get crap bonuses and crap skills.

it's no different then anything else. you can autoclick to mine, you can reflect armor to level, you can bot without being caught 100% of the time....you'll ALWAYS have problems. it seems the general consensus on this server is "homunc BAD" which is simply not true, or if it is true, it's true of mining/fishing/autoreflect armor as well.

if you look at the AI program, you CANNOT auto feed/auto rez. the way the program WORKS is this:

your homunc dies, the AI program shuts off. you cannot autorez as that would be a script in the AI program which is shut off. the only way it would work is for you to lag EXACTLY right EVERY time for it to happen. with how laggy the server is, it may happen 1/99 times. autofeeding isn't possible in the homunc AI script from what we were able to find, and again requires an outside botting program.

the website you linked me to from what i translated says you'd need a botting program to fully create the "AFK"emist....they also state that the ai program auto shuts off and you can't do it in there....at least from what i can translate (using bablefish and my high school/college years of japanese language) the site also talks about the AI jRO made for their server, and THAT'S what has the problem. so it is just with jRO and not eA.

the theory behind (and practice of) afkemists is you get loyalty very high and feed it to the point that you can walk away from the computer for hours on end and come back to a homunc with full hunger and barely any loyalty left. this means you'll have a very high level homunc with next to no loyalty, which means you can't evolve it. you trade evolving for char levels and no base levels. this requires a lot of math, and frankly with the bot checks on this server, i don't see it as a problem. all you have to do is either warp to the alchie/creator, check 'em, and if they fail warp them to a jail cell. if they still don't respond, kick 'em. same as any bot.

i wish this server would actually test this things instead of presuming they exist. it's REALLY frustrating to try to level an alchemist without a homunc, and frankly i miss my little buddy. there's no reason we shouldn't have homunc by now with all the "looking into" the gms have done. if you need help coding these things and testing them, we'd be more than happy to help. if you need the server base the help with some afkemist checks, we'd be happy to do that too.

just please, PLEASE give us our homuncs already :cry:

EDIT: forgot to mention, if you OVERFEED your homunculus, you LOSE intimacy. the perfect time to feed your homunc is between 14-24 hunger, where you get 1 full intimacy point. below that you lose, above that you get about .5, and above that you get next to nothin and above that i think you lose intimacy (if i'm remember correctly)

i have a PLETHORA of info i'd be happy to share/link/explore/whatever with you, but show some love to our poor little soul shards D:

[Wired]

well until we get homuncs i'm taking a hiatus from the server. it's too frustrating to *try* to play alchemist when you get no buffs, no humoncs, and crappy job bonuses. ugh.

i don't see WHY homuncs are such a huge issue. they're NEEDED as an alchemist tool, which is WHY they were created and WHY alchemists get crap bonuses and crap skills.

- Lol at crap skill your talking about the best healer of the game.
- Also talking about the only char who can make and throw blue pots
- chemical protection 0.0


Yes homuncs are nice, BUT NOT necesary Like your saying. Theres lots of way to lvl beside homunculus.

[wussypuff]

-best healer of the game...but there's FISH on this server. they're like 100 times better, easier to obtain, and heal both hp and sp.
-yeah, we can make pots. but we can fish too! as can EVERYONE ELSE. throwing pots is great in a party....last i checked, not many parties happening on this server. also blue herbs...i can farm ALL DAY to get blue herbs, and not get any xp, but lots of zeny for selling the pots. doesn't really help for leveling. and i can throw blue pots at myself, but if i'm 99 int fireblending soils i regen sp faster than i spend it.
-yeah, chemical protection...how does that tank for me or help me level? great for woe....but sadly you don't get xp from killing folks. even if you did, as an alchemist you're more a target to distract from the ranged folks than anything.

parasites are great, but very VERY item intensive. i can easily take out bio 2 with parasites, but i need a fireblend, frilldora card, and about 400 plant bottles (about 600 maneater blossoms if i'm lucky with brewing) and a ton of fish in case i happen to get hit as i'll need 99 int and some good dex for my parasites to do much dmg and get them out faster than bio spawns can kill me.

alchemist job bonuses are luk/dex/int. not str, not vit, not agi...not anything useful for solo'ing.

keep in mind that alchemists also trade ALL job experience for homunculus levels. i'd say that's a pretty good trade, as alchemist job levels can be pretty vital.

[GM-Ayu]

The bug is not so much about autofeed/autores (well, actually on that one...), but somehow the AI not only controls the Homunculous but can also use the master's skill without 3rd party program. Basically, the AI takes over both the chemist and homunculus to the chemist is also cart revoing/potting/bolting and so on. Auto-potting has always been an integral part of many AI, so I'm quite confused to some people's claims that this is not intentional.

I only learned of this today myself so I have shallow knowledge to how does the AI take over the chemist, but supposedly programming at 5% or lower hp of homunculus and a phen clip, chemist can auto-res the homun through the AI's control over the chemist. AI indeed shuts down, but they say that with phen clip to drag out the summon casting and also to make it uninterruptable, your homun dies, AI shuts down but the AI already called the unstoppable res action before that, thus the AI is back on again with homun ready again.

However, doing that does affect intimacy and other etc-etc type of thing. I'm still trying to read further for how this works. Assuming the worse that AI can indeed take over the chemist somehow, does this affect the limit on feeding/resing?

The other concern of homunculus is suicidal low level card hunting. Yes the homun gets beaten up with the intimacy using Ms Faolin's already stated overfeeding, but how does that compare to say, throw it in OD2 and get a handful of orc skeleton card? That'll probably pay off all the things needed to remake the homun for the next night hm?


Many of these are pure theories, but I think that it's important for GM to be overly paranoid and cautious rather than suffering the lack of foresight. I'm not saying that we aren't adding homunculus, or why else did we test them out and reward those who helped in the maintenance super high rate last Saturday?

With or without me looking at the potential of AI to take over the chemist supposedly, it may not even pose a problem at all if the chemist can indeed bolt/potion pitcher/cart revo by itself. That's why I'm still swimming in iRO forum to try to find more about the much dreaded AFKemist. A lot of them are macro/bots topics, making it difficult for me to find out threads that talk about AI taking over the chemists...

If you're impatient about the lack of homunculus, rather than take a passive stance to just wait for it to come out, why not take the active stance and contribute? You can consider joining the Testing/Development team, and help on the rather... quiet homunculus development topic there. More help we have, the faster it comes out.


[edit: I'm still confused how potion pitcher on homun is 'supposedly' not intentional... I mean, how the heck do you click on the homun when half the time it's all covered up by monsters from mobbing anyway Oh well we'll see another time.]

[wussypuff]

oh i don't mind waiting, but i'd rather not wait on something that is being caught up in unneccessary red tape. it seems there's a lot of heresay and not any testing actually happening. yes saturday was some player testing, but it wasn't any afkemist testing. the homunc seemed stable enough.

the phen wouldn't make sense as the AI script has nothing to do with cast time. it's not the cast time that makes it so the homunc won't auto rez, it's the program itself shutting down. it can't run the auto rez script because that comes after the death script...so it goes kinda like

death script
shut down script
auto-rez script

there's no way to put auto-rez before the shut down script, and it won't pre-emptively "auto-rez" as it wouldn't do anything and wouldn't work anyway.

the phen clip wouldn't really make a difference. sure the "rez" script MAY run (which you can't code correctly UNTIL the homunc dies) but once the AI shuts down, that's it. the pre-emptive rez shouldn't work.

i'll test it on the RMS test server and make 100% sure it can't happen, but i'm 99.9% sure it's pretty impossible to create it with any guarantee more than 1/100 times of it working.

also i've given input ont he subject before but all we got in response was "we're working on it"

we were never really asked to contribute, so i thank you for asking and i'm happy to help any way i can

[Rhino_Man]

AI coding systems were changed about 2 years ago so that autotrading a homunculus cannot work anymore.??It is now completely and 100% impossible to code a HomAI to autofeed your homunculus without using a botting program (definately illegal).

AFK time for an alchemist is at the lest 2 to 4 min or at the most 60 min if they push their homunculus belly too far.


EDIT: about afkemists.??>_>..... yeah they're a really really horrible way to lvl up.??At best what I would do is watch anime with my homunculus killing stuff like wolves and weak crap that it won't die to.??I have two monitors so I can watch both at once.

EDIT2: ehm, that is, to level my HOMUNCULUS not my alchemist.