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+--- Thread: I Hate Big Parties! (/showthread.php?tid=17283)
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Jens - 11-10-2010
I hate biolabs 2. No job exp.
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Matrim Cauthon Jr - 11-10-2010
You want no job EXP? Go to Odins.
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Namine - 11-10-2010
@Crazylor: in summary, we just call those things "instance" which sadly is one darn busted up function in the coding. It kinda works, but mostly not.
@Matrim: hey tons of solo sin and sinx are there in Juperos =P But if you mean deeper level, well them cores are kinda outdated for the most part by now, or opening them via BB may probably be easier to find Vesper that way than bothering with the elevator.
@Jens: Nidhoggur ftw!
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Adrillf - 11-10-2010
Here's my logic:
You're in a minimal party- let's go necromancers just for the sake of the argument- that involves a bragi, a priest, a wizard, a puller, and a banshee killer. That's 5 people.
We'll run straight math here, without server customs like the more people you get into a party the more exp, we'll take that calculation into account later.
One necromancer give 225,000 base and 175,000 job exp. If we are to divide that among the 5 party members that means that per necromancer I'm getting 45,000 base and 35,000 job.
Let's make that a party that people seem to like to run that looks something like this: a wiz, a bragi, a priest, a tank, a banshee killer, another banshee killer, a random sage that doesn't do much of anything, a sin who does less than the sage, a dancer who is there to shake her hips and look pretty, a prof, and a second priest to tie up any loose ends. All in all- 12 people, max party size. That necromancer you just killed now gives you 18,750 base and 14,583 job.
Compared to the first party where you were getting 45,000 and 35,000 that's a difference of 26,250 base and 20,417 job given to people that really don't deserve it because they're doing nothing to help out the party.
Now, let's consider the 5 person vs 12 person and add in the extra % per person in the party. The rule is an extra 5% per person. 5% of a necromancer's exp is 11,250. So in a 5 person party, you're getting 56,250 added ontop of the 225,000 base which totals up to be 281,250. This means that each person in the party gains 56,250 base. I'll save you the time and me the math, and not worry about job exp when talking about this, just know that in a 5 man party you'll get 56,250 per necro.
Now onto the 12 party. Your 5% added ontop of the 225,000 base is 135,000 making it a solid 360,000. Divide that out 12 ways and you get 30,000 per person, still less than the 56,250 per person.
In review:
Without exp boost for party members- small party > huge party
With exp boost- small party > huge party
Then let's talk about items. A card for a necromancer is .03%. In assuming it drops in a 5 man party you have a 1/5 or .2% chance of getting that card. That all put together gives you about a .006% chance of getting a card in one necro kill. In a twelve man party you have a 1/12 chance or .083% of getting that card which gives you a total of .0025% chance of getting a card.
To me it's obvious. I want items, I want exp, so I'll stick with the party that can make that happen. The fewer the better. Want even better exp per kill? Cut it down to three people. Want to just be aweseome and get all of the exp and all of the drops? Solo necromancers.
In a game where you are trying to always get better and it takes FOREVER to get better, why drag it out longer than needed just to take some useless people with you? And as a person who has two profs and has grinded both of them up; yes, sages are completly useless in a necro party and if you hear otherwise you are an idiot for believing it.
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Zaratus - 11-10-2010
You forgot the +25 % boost per tag in those calculations.
Anyways, I still agree with you =]
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Namine - 11-10-2010
General mathematically speaking, let x be the number of players and y be the original exp of the monster. Let A be the final amount of exp you get. We're going to ignore items and only talk about partying from exp perspective.
Assumptions:
-everyone tabs successfully
-the bonus from tabbing and party bonus is summative
-I interpreted "5% for each party member" for the best case possible in favor of partying. If you have a party of 2, then total bonus you get is 10%, not just 5%.
-regardless of number of players in party, you always kill something in the same speed
5% bonus exp for each party member
25% bonus exp for each tab
[1+0.05x+0.25x]y/x = A
[1+0.3x]y/x = A
y/x + 0.3y = A
y is actually a constant, so x is the only changing factor. Derive it to calculate the rate of change for A to see what's the increase or decrease of your actual exp as you get more party members. You get:
-yx^-2 = A'
-y / x^2 = A'
[Note: formula does NOT apply for case of 1 person in case you are plugging it in, cause tagging and party bonus does not apply if you have a party of 1 person. So x must be 2 or higher.]
Conclusions from this:
-Change of A is always negative, so adding in any party members is always a bad thing.
-The loss is less severe if you have more and more party member, because increasing x will increase your denominator, just reducing your losses
Under ideal circumstances and all assumptions are true, the bigger the party the better. Solo gets the most, but the next best case is 12 man party, follow by 11, and 10 and etc... worse case scenario is the 2 man party.
Thus partying is great in theory, but now in practice, can you really do...
-absolutely everyone tabs before the monster die
-all party member must not lead the party to death
You try tabbing a necro when there's a SG going on and the sages bombarding it, with throw arrow/musical strikes everywhere. See if that necro survives by like the 3rd tab.
It's not all bad for partying though. The killing speed factor is the big plus for partying. If you can kill significantly faster when you add more people, then you can earn more exp compare to soloing as well, so there's a factor that math cannot accurately account for, since "contribution to killing speed" cannot be calculated or expressed in numbers in a general case.
However, this means on exp-worthy MvPs that cannot be soloed anyway, having party leeches is good (again excluding item problems.) MvPs usually got enough hp to survive a tab from everyone unlike regular parties. They greatly reduce your exp loss compare to soloing it, as long as they pull a tab off. It is a very good scenario for things like Thanatos where if you sorted out how item share is going to work before hand. Just have a bunch of people tab him, then fly wing and hide in the corner while the "pros" do their stuff to take down the mvp afterwards. You'll actually get more exp that way.
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Sepharius - 11-10-2010
Tab? You mean tap*? xD
RE:??I Hate Big Parties! - Ultima_Pi - 11-10-2010
Namine Wrote:tabs tabbing tagging tabs tabbing tab tab tab
One of these things is not like the other...
One of these things just doesn't belong...
I thought tabbing was going to another app window... meaning all those nameless/thors noobs are botting, and should be banned. YAY!
Also, killing time generally isn't decreased by a significant amount as more leechers are added to the party.
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Namine - 11-10-2010
Same excuse applies: I teach math not english >:[
@Marivel: thus why I use mvp that require at least 2 players as example. You gotta party anyway, so you might as well take the biggest party possible to reduce your losses. (I didn't say increase your gain. I said decrease the losses.)
RE: I Hate Big Parties! - Lust - 11-11-2010
I applaud Namine. Somebody explained how party works. She's completely right about tapping.
That's the reason why I don't really mind big party plus it is safer to be with more people. :D
... And it is good for 95-er up to 99-er.