+- heRO-Server Forum (https://www.pandoraonline.net/forum)
+-- Forum: Game Related (https://www.pandoraonline.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Suggestions/Questions (https://www.pandoraonline.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Thread: Quest Exp Rate (/showthread.php?tid=9220)
RE:??Quest Exp Rate - Sepharius - 03-13-2009
azurerogue Wrote:DS/TU spam doesn't automatically = sucky player - can we please drop that assumption???In fact, some of the best players (although bad ones too) will level this way simply because it is optimal.??What would you rather do when you first join and aren't a part of a guild/party group: go Full Support and pray to find a party (and if you don't, spend your time heal bombing to 99), or go TU (and still be able to adequately support most parties) and level crazy fast.??Or, for DS, would you rather go full support or actually be able to level when a party can't be found???
Point is, stop assuming that people who level fast are noobs, it's usually the opposite.??We have a reset NPC, it's not like TUing to 99 means never switching to Full Support.??And the learning curve for MOST classes (especially your average bragi bard and non-end-game priest) is not THAT difficult.??The only hard part is developing working hot keys, which is not the same as knowing/not knowing what to do in certain situations.??
Aye... I've been leveling at Anubis since level 70, since I don't really have time to play this month. Time restraints prevent me from having parties, so the only choice I really do have is to go down to Sphinx 4 and TU (good bit of exp per anubis, which is good since TU is one hit and it seems to be friendly to my schedule).
Unfortunately, higher rate servers have drilled into many people's minds that TU + Anubis = Don't know how to play a class.
RE: ??Quest Exp Rate - Frogboy - 03-14-2009
JJJ Wrote:Frogboy Wrote:Exactly the point, there isn't a lot of exp quests in RO, therefore raising the exp given by those quests is a viable compensation for the lack of quests. Granted you can bring up that RO isn't meant to be a quest-oriented game, but it doesn't exactly matter how you get to level 99 trans because your ability to play your class is going to show, whether it's in parties, WoE, PvP, etc.not really, RO has such a limited amount theres not enough for most to bother with them which was my point as to why a lot of people don't do RO quests
however simply increasing the rewards does not increase the number of quests.
Slate Wrote:exp by clicking on npcs is not really a downside at all, it's an alternative to killing monsters which are pretty much like clicking on npcs anyway, if you do it right that is.clicking on a npc to gain exp basically promotes useless players that have no idea how to actually level.
Slate Wrote:people will still need to know how to play in order to compete, because not everyone will use the quest exp to level, therefore you will need to have a level of skill, so that point is pretty moot.true, but you'll have a larger majority of people that have no idea about the proper way to use a character, and im pretty sure theres not a single person that wants more "noob" players
Slate Wrote:even if you get to 99 trans by doing repeatable quests then you still have to know how to play your character.uhhh i don't get this point?
how does knowing how to spam enter teach you how to play your character?
Ellie Wrote:2. How is grinding also not pointing and clicking? Many people level at HWs, which for most, is a point and click.the difference is you know how to kill certain monsters, you know which skills, gears, and tactics will work
Archers with DS or FA, Merchants with Mammomite, Sins with GT.
On that note, some classes can level without even clicking. Hi2u, alchemists with homuns.
ie. you know what you can mob, you know what you can actually kill, you know how to direct your build, etc
Ellie Wrote:3. Enter key has as much skill as Priests at Anubis, or bard/dancer going to HWs. XDat least there they need to know what gears to use, what skills to use (bless anubis, lex, so on) even if all you do is DS spam you still learn how many DS' you can shoot off before you run out of sp and how fast you can shoot them off
Force-Attuned Krogoth Wrote:Quests won't stop the people who want to learn the job from doing so.??And grinding won't stop the people who want to slide by from doing that, either.??I consider this a wholly moot issue that won't make a significant difference.the main difference is your giving them the chance to get to an extremely high level with little to no effort
ok my rebuttal...though you misquoted who said all of that, as it wasn't slate, but me XD
anyway, the part about increasing the exp does not increase the number of quests. i have no idea where you got that. i wasn't expecting an increase in quests, ever. nobody should, ro isn't known for quests, though we have been doing our best to come up with new quests to do. however, due to the limited amount of quests that we do have, doesn't it make more sense anyway to give a greater reward for completing them because of the lack of quests available? either that, or start making a whole lot more quests that give less exp, so that people that want to quest instead of mob can do so.
you're saying we'll have useless players that don't know how to play their class. if that were true, don't you think WoW or Guild Wars or any other MMO that is based more on questing for exp rather than killing monsters for that exp would have fallen apart because, by your logic, people that enter spam obviously cannot know how to play their character. that is a complete fallacy as is evidenced in those games. anyone wishing to actually compete and do well will have to put the effort in to knowing how their class works, what is needed in each situation, and how to get what is needed. otherwise you're right, we do have worthless players, but then again, those not willing to put in the time and effort won't really compete as it won't be worth it for them.
as for krogoth's point, and your rebuttal on that, what i have to say to that is so what if they get to a high level? you would agree with me that RO has become more centered around WoE and PvP as the end-game ideal, at least that is the way it has been in most every server i've played in. grinding is just part of the process, or questing, whichever suits your fancy, but in the end it leads to one thing if that's what you want, and that is WoE/PvP/MvP. really, RO will eventually become like all other games, it will become stagnant because there just isn't anything else left to do. that is why Gravity comes up with new episodes, and new quests, and ultimately this whole changeover in the way the game is played and how their stats work and what not, and third classes. there just isn't really anything new by the time you get to the end-game. granted if it could be done more slowly getting there, then that wouldn't be bad, but as it is, there aren't enough quests to do that, so as a temporary thing, raise the exp rates up, then if we can introduce a whole slew of exp quests that give far less exp, yet keep them with the server rates, then that'd be a much more exciting ordeal. the hard part is making quests worthy of heroes
RE: Quest Exp Rate - Ellie - 03-14-2009
.... An archer class DS grinding, rather than doing quests teaches them about equips?
Not so. Not at all.
I used to do HWs. Arbalest[1]. Shoes[0]. And my celeb wings + Cubic ribbon.
And I did fine.
It taught me nothing.
You say quests make them skip high end leveling?
The quests, and exp you listed, doesn't even get them from 95-99.
What about the 90-94?
Or, if they take doing quests from 70-whatever, what about still leveling from 90-99?
And then trans?
There are NOT enoguh quests to even begin to nullify the high level stuff.
Not to mention, that quests don't provide you with an income. So players will still be killing things for gears/zeny.
RE:??Quest Exp Rate - Kretzer - 03-14-2009
azurerogue Wrote:Kretzer Wrote:And people who DO Suck will continue to Suck until they put some effort into learning their characters past the ussual grinding spot and jamming their main skill (Im looking at YOU, TU and DS).
DS/TU spam doesn't automatically = sucky player - can we please drop that assumption???In fact, some of the best players (although bad ones too) will level this way simply because it is optimal.??What would you rather do when you first join and aren't a part of a guild/party group: go Full Support and pray to find a party (and if you don't, spend your time heal bombing to 99), or go TU (and still be able to adequately support most parties) and level crazy fast.??Or, for DS, would you rather go full support or actually be able to level when a party can't be found???
Point is, stop assuming that people who level fast are noobs, it's usually the opposite.??We have a reset NPC, it's not like TUing to 99 means never switching to Full Support.??And the learning curve for MOST classes (especially your average bragi bard and non-end-game priest) is not THAT difficult.??The only hard part is developing working hot keys, which is not the same as knowing/not knowing what to do in certain situations.??
As in, do something else.
Good players do level fast using their characters main Skills, but also learn to play their class efectively. Like your example, they go full TU, and switch to their desired build after they reach a certain level.
RE:??Quest Exp Rate - JJJ - 03-14-2009
Frogboy Wrote:ok my rebuttal...though you misquoted who said all of that, as it wasn't slate, but me XDDx i was sleepy Y.Y
Frogboy Wrote:anyway, the part about increasing the exp does not increase the number of quests. i have no idea where you got that. i wasn't expecting an increase in quests, ever. nobody should, ro isn't known for quests, though we have been doing our best to come up with new quests to do. however, due to the limited amount of quests that we do have, doesn't it make more sense anyway to give a greater reward for completing them because of the lack of quests available? either that, or start making a whole lot more quests that give less exp, so that people that want to quest instead of mob can do so.my point was that in most MMORPGs the reason players do quests is either because its a quest based game, or because theres a lot of available quests
in RO's case the quests are so few that very few do them, simply increasing the prizes won't really make people want to do them, they'll do them because its easier though
if you actually want to make it so people in RO want to do quests simply because they enjoy them, then you need more quests
Frogboy Wrote:you're saying we'll have useless players that don't know how to play their class. if that were true, don't you think WoW or Guild Wars or any other MMO that is based more on questing for exp rather than killing monsters for that exp would have fallen apart because, by your logic, people that enter spam obviously cannot know how to play their character. that is a complete fallacy as is evidenced in those games. anyone wishing to actually compete and do well will have to put the effort in to knowing how their class works, what is needed in each situation, and how to get what is needed. otherwise you're right, we do have worthless players, but then again, those not willing to put in the time and effort won't really compete as it won't be worth it for them.in WoW, all the quests involve knowing how to play your character, same with guild wars
the difference in RO is that 90% of the quest RO has are basically "walk to point A, walk to point B" and the ones that do involve killing things for certain allow parties or allow you to omit the step
Frogboy Wrote:as for krogoth's point, and your rebuttal on that, what i have to say to that is so what if they get to a high level? you would agree with me that RO has become more centered around WoE and PvP as the end-game ideal, at least that is the way it has been in most every server i've played in. grinding is just part of the process, or questing, whichever suits your fancy, but in the end it leads to one thing if that's what you want, and that is WoE/PvP/MvP. really, RO will eventually become like all other games, it will become stagnant because there just isn't anything else left to do. that is why Gravity comes up with new episodes, and new quests, and ultimately this whole changeover in the way the game is played and how their stats work and what not, and third classes. there just isn't really anything new by the time you get to the end-game. granted if it could be done more slowly getting there, then that wouldn't be bad, but as it is, there aren't enough quests to do that, so as a temporary thing, raise the exp rates up, then if we can introduce a whole slew of exp quests that give far less exp, yet keep them with the server rates, then that'd be a much more exciting ordeal. the hard part is making quests worthy of heroesthat kind of.... ignored my point /swt
yes its true that RO is more based around WoE, PvP, and GvG lately, but having people level off pure quests simply promotes a lack of knowledge in those areas
Ellie Wrote:.... An archer class DS grinding, rather than doing quests teaches them about equips?you now know how to use DS, where to stand when killing things, the range you have, your ability to hit lock things, you know which arrows to use on at least one type of monster, you know what gets you killed, and hopefully what you can kill
Not so. Not at all.
I used to do HWs. Arbalest[1]. Shoes[0]. And my celeb wings + Cubic ribbon.
And I did fine.
It taught me nothing.
vs.
you know how to walk, how to use the warper/kafra, and you know how to click and talk to npcs
Ellie Wrote:You say quests make them skip high end leveling?some quests do give a decent prize, which give you a fair amount of zeny, after all i did make a rather large some of money off of doing 1 quest, about 900k by doing it once
The quests, and exp you listed, doesn't even get them from 95-99.
What about the 90-94?
Or, if they take doing quests from 70-whatever, what about still leveling from 90-99?
And then trans?
There are NOT enoguh quests to even begin to nullify the high level stuff.
Not to mention, that quests don't provide you with an income. So players will still be killing things for gears/zeny.
and im aware that it won't get you past level 9x, and that you will have to go through the trans / final levels to actually complete your character, but if you negate all that time in the levels 80 to mid 90s, your still going to be lacking a large sum of knowledge
RE: Quest Exp Rate - Ellie - 03-14-2009
Know where to stand?
Nah. I've played a LK for too long. I play an archer like one. >:
J, in order for these quests to actually help, you're going to need to be a certain level already. In which case, you've already learned what you can kill, your skills, etc.
Or, you do them early. In which case, you still have to grind, and learn the skills and the such.
Unless you can get from training grounds to trans99 on just quests, you're going to learn something.
RE: Quest Exp Rate - azurerogue - 03-14-2009
So, basically, various people in this thread are arguing two things:
1.??Spamming TU/DS/Whatever all the way to 99 doesn't teach you how to "actually" play your class (because these people are trying to say that those builds are invalid at high levels - and they're usually right, most people don't use them as end-game final builds).??
and
2.??Doing quests to get a majority of your levels doesn't teach you how to "actually" play your class.
So, where's the problem with raising quest exp rates???If the majority of people huddle at Anubis (because, for many people, it is THE best experience/hour available - parties included), and just spam one or two skills to get to 99 how is that any different from questing for exp and THEN going to Anubis???
EDIT:
J J J Wrote:yes its true that RO is more based around WoE, PvP, and GvG lately, but having people level off pure quests simply promotes a lack of knowledge in those areas
Honestly, the only thing that promotes knowledge in those areas, though, is participating in them. You're not going to become some "leet" WoE participant by owning it up in PvM.
RE: Quest Exp Rate - Herman - 03-14-2009
I'm still just utterly confused about most of this.
1- The marjor arguments against this change are being made by a player that main's with a baby novice, only available skills being ones that clips and gear give. And the points that he is arguing is that by giving too many levels you'll be skipping all the "learning" a player would recieve if they would have to grind those levels otherwise. It just sounds silly silly silly. "Learning" how to play your class can mean many different things, depending on what scenario you're playing.??Lvling and grinding will teach you about as much as quests if you're final goal is to be good at pvp, because its a whole new game at the pvp level.??You're not going to gain useful knowledge of PvPing with your class from lvling, ever.??Lvling so that you can party in high end dungeons wont teach you how to party in high end dungeons.??I think my point here is made, you learn it when you do it, not in the levels that get you there =p.
Seeing most of these arguments from a player that plays a baby novice are what makes it even funnier.??I do not mean to offend and it is not what I'm trying to do, but your "class" cant do any of the end game events/dungeons like a typical class can. I understand your point of view may be centered around this though.??You level to... well level.??I dont see any significant advantage to being a higher level of your character.??Most classes level in order to participate in WoE, PvP, ToH and high end dungeons.??Sure, learning the basics about your class is important, but learning how to mob thors, place LoV's in Ice Caves 3 to compensate for position lag or WoE like a champion will just take practice at that very thing.??What I learned in my mid 70's and 80's will have little to do with how well I will do in these later stages of the game.??How did Firebolting mavka's teach me how to measure position lag to land my next LoV at Ice titans? Answer: it didnt.??
Basic point: This is a 5x/5x server, monsters are given this multiplier, why not quests? Sure, they arent WoW quests, but this isnt WoW.??Players play this game for many different reasons, so there will be many different views on xp gain from quests, but lets not make one of them "learning" your class please.??Its just silly.
RE: Quest Exp Rate - JJJ - 03-14-2009
*is tired of having to repeat himself*
so i'll just leave it at that since i already answer a ton of these points that seem to being brought up again X.x
but do note, i reserve the right to say i told you so
RE: Quest Exp Rate - rams365 - 03-14-2009
Hahaha I'm laughing really hard at the guy who says Snipers should lvl with a skill other then DS. YES YOU'RE RIGHT I should totally go full FA build and kill the main purpose I play sniper, DPS. Thats what a sniper is about for me. If i wanted moderately fast casting high damage high cooldown skills I would have made a wizard, genious.
Hey guys! We should all leave the place we level the fastest and make a noob party where we all use our secondary skills and lvl super slow!! Good idea right?