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RE:??Why.. - Général_Argos - 01-04-2010 01:11 AM
azurerogue Wrote:And, 7seven7, about your point about my hypothetical situation being uncommon it very much is not.??MS is a 7x7 area skill that can drop meteors centered on any area in that 7x7 area.??Each meteor hurts things within a 7x7 area of where it falls (giving the spell a potential coverage of 13x13).??Thus, if you're in the middle of the spell's AoE you will receive damage from most of the meteors since even the corners should be hitting you when they are hit by a meteor.??So no, it doesn't take an insane amount of Wizards to stack up massive damage.??
WRONG! D:<
Go check it in the db
The area is 3 cells for levels [1-10] and 14 cells for lvl 11 (for mvp purpose)
3x3 = 9
and
7x7 = 49
9/49 = 0.18
Every meteor rock only covers 18% of the area of the whole spell (unless used in a confined area)
Using it in a 3x10 corridor would mean that you get 9/30 = 30% of hitting a target moving in that corridor. On a level 10 meteor storm you will it on average 7*0.3 = 2 times your target.
RE: Why.. - azurerogue - 01-04-2010 01:18 AM
It's 3 cells out from where it hits.??Which is 7x7.??Storm Gust's value for range is 5, though, what does that mean???I don't recall SG's size off the top of my head, but I didn't think it was 11x11.??
EDIT: Actually, just hopped on my Wizard and it looked like 11x11.??Certainly not 5x5 (as your argument above would suggest).??That's as much testing as I'm willing to do at the moment.??
RE: Why.. - Général_Argos - 01-04-2010 01:27 AM
It is not 3 cells from the center, it is 3 cells from right to left and from top to bottom.??
Check the db.??
Quote:83,9,8,2,3,0,3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:14,10,1:1:2:2:3:3:4:4:5:5:15,yes,0,0,0,magic,0, WZ_METEOR,Meteor Storm
84,9,8,1,4,0,0,10,3:4:5:6:7:8:9:10:11:12,yes,0,0,0,magic,2:3:3:4:4:5:5:6:6:7, WZ_JUPITEL,Jupitel Thunder
85,9,8,2,4,0,0,10,-10,yes,0,0,0,magic,0, WZ_VERMILION,Lord of Vermilion
86,9,8,1,1,0,0,5,1,yes,0,0,0,magic,0, WZ_WATERBALL,Water Ball
87,9,6,2,1,0,0,10,1,yes,0,0,0,magic,0, WZ_ICEWALL,Ice Wall
88,0,6,4,1,0x2,2,10,1,yes,0,0,0,magic,0, WZ_FROSTNOVA,Frost Nova
89,9,6,2,1,0,0,10,1,yes,0,0,0,magic,2, WZ_STORMGUST,Storm Gust
90,9,8,1,2,0,0,5,1:2:3:4:5,yes,0,0,0,magic,0, WZ_EARTHSPIKE,Earth Spike
91,9,8,2,2,0,0,5,1:2:3:4:5,yes,0,0,0,magic,0, WZ_HEAVENDRIVE,Heaven's Drive
I see no value of "5" for SG.
RE: Why.. - azurerogue - 01-04-2010 01:34 AM
skill_unit_db (as posted by Ayu)
// ID,unit ID,unit ID 2,layout,range,interval,target,flag
// flag 0x001(UF_DEFNOTENEMY) If 'defunit_not_enemy' is set, the target is changed to 'friend'
// 0x002(UF_NOREITERRATION) Spell cannot be stacked
// 0x004(UF_NOFOOTSET) Spell cannot be cast near/on targets
// 0x008(UF_NOOVERLAP) Spell effects do not overlap
// 0x010(UF_PATHCHECK) Only cells with a shootable path will be placed
// 0x020(UF_NOPC) Spell cannot affect players.
// 0x040(UF_NOMOB) Spell cannot affect mobs.
// 0x080(UF_SKILL) Spell CAN affect skills.
// 0x100(UF_DANCE) Dance skill
// 0x200(UF_ENSEMBLE) Ensemble skill
// 0x400(UF_SONG) Song skill
// 0x800(UF_DUALMODE) Spell has effects both at an interval and when you step in/out
// Example: 0x006 = 0x002+0x004 -> Cannot be stacked nor cast near targets
83,0x86, , 0, 3,1000,enemy, 0x010 //WZ_METEOR
85,0x86, , 0, 6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:8,1250,enemy,0x018 //WZ_VERMILION
87,0x8d, , -1, 0, -1,all, 0x010 //WZ_ICEWALL
89,0x86, , 0, 5, 450,enemy, 0x018 //WZ_STORMGUST
91,0x86, , 0, 2,1000,enemy, 0x010 //WZ_HEAVENDRIVE
It just so happens that these numbers (and the HD number, and LoV number as well) happen to fit the stated areas of the spells, then?
----------------------
----------------------
Also, your argument is that MVP Meteors are some of the only AoEs without a focal point + even coverage on each side???Because if 3 means 3x3 then, logically, 14 means 14x14 which would not make sense.??
RE: Why.. - 7seven7 - 01-04-2010 01:45 AM
I don't know why I'm bothering to argue with you. No one is ever going to be in the "center" of your AoE for more than the time it takes to move a cell, as the idea is to get past the precast area as quickly as possible. So unless you plan to follow one character around and attempt to MS them to death, your theory won't work. You're reminding me of a Ph.D. with no field experience. You've read the material, but clearly haven't seen the practical scenario.
Inb4 I get called mean or arrogant: None of my arguments have been intended as personal attacks, moreso just assertive arguments from a lot of experience with RO.
RE:??Why.. - sira - 01-04-2010 01:52 AM
7seven7 Wrote:You're reminding me of a Ph.D. with no field experience.??You've read the material, but clearly haven't seen the practical scenario.till now
None of my arguments have been intended as personal attacks
RE:??Why.. - Général_Argos - 01-04-2010 02:05 AM
azurerogue Wrote:skill_unit_db (as posted by Ayu)
[...]
83,0x86, , 0, 3,1000,enemy, 0x010 //WZ_METEOR
85,0x86, , 0, 6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:8,1250,enemy,0x018 //WZ_VERMILION
87,0x8d, , -1, 0, -1,all, 0x010 //WZ_ICEWALL
89,0x86, , 0, 5, 450,enemy, 0x018 //WZ_STORMGUST
91,0x86, , 0, 2,1000,enemy, 0x010 //WZ_HEAVENDRIVE
It just so happens that these numbers (and the HD number, and LoV number as well) happen to fit the stated areas of the spells, then?
----------------------
----------------------
Also, your argument is that MVP Meteors are some of the only AoEs without a focal point + even coverage on each side???Because if 3 means 3x3 then, logically, 14 means 14x14 which would not make sense.??
Omg how can you be so wrong you are looking at skill_unit_db instead of skill_db and you are confusing RANGE and SPLASH DAMAGE.??Some spell's effects are affected by the RANGE of the spell, while what we are concerned here is by the SPLASH DAMAGE area wich is something else.??
The range is the (1+2*x)^2 wich is 7x7 for meteor and 11x11 for sg.??But what we are concerned by here is the splash damage area (x^2), not the area of the spell ):??And b4 you pointing to me that SG has 0 splash damage in skill_db, I'll just refer you to Sira's post explaining that SG is a dot spell and not a splash spell.??:l
14x14 just means whole screen, probably for mvp like amon ra I don't know/who cares it is for lvl 11 meteor storm, it is meant for gms or w/e, not for players obv
7seven7 Wrote:You've read the material, but clearly haven't seen the practical scenario.
you should add that he didn't read well the manual
sorry if this is getting personnal albus, but you should do your homework at least before getting here and arguing about stuff you don't understand/or didn't put the efforts/time to understand
-______-
RE: ??Why.. - azurerogue - 01-04-2010 02:28 AM
G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:Omg how can you be so wrong you are looking at skill_unit_db instead of skill_db and you are confusing RANGE and SPLASH DAMAGE.??Some spell's effects are affected by the RANGE of the spell, while what we are concerned here is by the SPLASH DAMAGE area wich is something else.??
The range is the (1+2*x)^2 wich is 7x7 for meteor and 11x11 for sg.??But what we are concerned by here is the splash damage area (x^2), not the area of the spell ):??And b4 you pointing to me that SG has 0 splash damage in skill_db, I'll just refer you to Sira's post explaining that SG is a dot spell and not a splash spell.??:l
14x14 just means whole screen, probably for mvp like amon ra I don't know/who cares it is for lvl 11 meteor storm, it is meant for gms or w/e, not for players obv
7seven7 Wrote:You've read the material, but clearly haven't seen the practical scenario.
you should had that he didn't read well the manual
sorry if this is getting personnal albus, but you should do your homework at least before getting here and arguing about stuff you don't understand/or didn't put the efforts to understand
-______-
Okay, MS's range and splash damage (per meteor) are supposed to be same (according to iROWiki).??Wow, it seems that both databases indicate that they are the same (according to my interpretation) - coincidence???No.
14x14 is NOT full screen.??However, 29x29 (which is 14 cells out from the center cell - *hint hint*) is.??So, really, you're just reinforcing my point that 3 = 7x7, not 3x3.??
Even if you refuse to accept my argument with all of that, then you'd argue that (unless you want to say that they changed their format for range of encompass-ment/splash damage entirely between similar DBs) MS has a 3x3 AoE and each meteor splashes for 3x3 cells. So, yea... 3 clearly means 3 from the focal point which is 7x7. Thanks.
G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:you should do your homework at least before getting here and arguing about stuff you don't understand/or didn't put the efforts to understand
RE: Why.. - Général_Argos - 01-04-2010 02:37 AM
IROwiki is WRONG.??It always have been runned by RETARDS.??If you want to dig for truth, do it yourself by sourcecode, don't let yourself be fooled by retards.??*hint hint* it's a wiki, meaning it is from contributor authors, it is not official.??A rigourous wiki is a hard thing to maintain, and irowiki fail at this.??
14x14 being full screen is just an assumption I made for you because you were "omfg no sense its the apocalypse"??And I clearly stated that it was an assumption; wich mean I didn't verified it.??
?29x29 being full screen? No problem, 14x14 just mean a quarter screen.??And now that I look again it only makes sense, because skill_db wouldn't use 29x29 for fullscreen, they state THAT "-1" IS USED FOR FULLSCREEN.??
splash != range
It's not hard to understand.??
Again, I don't know why you are waisting your time on a wiki over the internet while you can have access to the SOURCE CODE ITSELF.??
Stop reading the wrong book.??
RE: Why.. - azurerogue - 01-04-2010 02:45 AM
Because the SOURCE CODE says that the area and splash ranges are THE SAME.??Which you are claiming isn't true.??Thanks.??The source code AGREES with iROWiki, which is not, by default, wrong.??And "full screen" in eAthena goes beyond the sight range of players (which is 29x29).??Full screen evil land, for example, goes beyond sight range.??Thanks, again.
So please stop assuming I'm in idiot and you're right automatically since you have yet to prove anything.??At all.??And your point about 14x14 being quarter screen still doesn't explain how an AoE with a focal point and equal surrounding areas uses an even number of cells on each side. It just doesn't add up.