Suggestion regarding Super Novice

[Little Sara]

For the same reason you need a Death Note book, or a Puppy Hat (not implemented normally).

Pretty sure you won't see Super Novice getting MVP on Valkyrie or Ifrit because of this, everything on those maps one shots them, same for the MVP. Their SP regen might be decent , but if they spam bolts and heal themselves, they're out of SP before saying "oops". And as said earlier in the second post, its possible to get instant without the bonus.

99 base DEX, +5 normal job bonus which you never lose +10 blessing +10 owl's eye 2 from novice armlets + attention concentrate = 141 dex

You didn't slot zeroms in those armlets yet, that's 147 dex. Apple o Archer and you have instant, with a staff of piercing.

This is without the +10 bonus. This is easily doable. 2 Zeroms, I could hunt them, and aoa I got one. I only need to be linked to equip the staff and hat and boom I'm set forever.

So I'm not asking to be hax, I'm asking to retain a bonus. I'm already "hax" without said bonus. I didn't even count Baby allegiance wings that give +2 all stats, yet I didn't take the slot to reach instant above, so I could use those.

[GM-Ayu]

I'm already "hax" without said bonus

Then all well ends well, and we are done.

[Little Sara]

I'm already "hax" without said bonus

Then all well ends well, and we are done.

Auto-cast Sage is already hax without Deathnote, didn't prevent addition of such, right?

Nothing is a need. You need air, food, shelter. The rest is luxury.

RO as a whole is a luxury.

IMO we shouldn't consider something in a "Do we need this?", but in a "Will this be disbalanced, if so in what way? And what can we do to compromise, if anything?"

I just proved it wasn't disbalanced. I only used two accessory slots and top headgear to reach instant, and I could have with other things, easily, those were just the easiest to get off the top of my head.

If you already can reach instant without the bonus, what harm could giving a means to keep said bonus do (provided you did some gruesome quest and managed to reach 99/99 deathless previous to this)?

[GM-Ayu]

If you are hax already without this implementation and from your post it is not a 'necessary' implementation, then why should we dump an unnecessary amount of even more source code edit for an 'addition' that hardly changes anything? Difficult to do for something not necessary and hardly benefits anyone (there's less than 5 active SN that's above lv 95, let alone 99/99).

And math for the sake of getting some math into a wall of text doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Similar to gym pass thread, I think that I stated the GM team's position on it already. If I'm not clear enough, let me state it in a black-and-white clear cut fashion:

No, I REALLY don't think that we'll be adding this to heRO


We don't mind suggestions from players and certainly not if they go through some research to display some reasoning to why should a suggestion be added and how it's beneficial. But we have to weigh it against many, many different factors here.

[Wallee]

99 base DEX, +5 normal job bonus which you never lose +10 blessing +10 owl's eye 2 from novice armlets + attention concentrate = 141 dex

You didn't slot zeroms in those armlets yet, that's 147 dex. Apple o Archer and you have instant, with a staff of piercing.

- armlet gives 1int 1 str. No dex
- SN cant use staff of piercing.
-SN gets more hp per vit point at 99

-Adding this with the way you want it for pvp would completly kill those surviving in pvp with their +10 stats using it.

-10 vit gives about 250 hp. which is a lot for a sn , including protection from certain stuff.

-10 agi is helpfull too since caster SN can actualy get 170 180 flee without using any points in agi simply with normal caster gear(ToH wings , Orc Baby card , Improve dodge skill, agi up.

-10 dex is a must for those relying on the +10 to survive. Allow you to stay with instant cast while using the remaing points not used in vit.

- 10int... nothing to say exept its adds me over 150 magic attack at 99 .

And that's all for a simple caster class. so not making it usable in pvp is ... a no from me.

[Little Sara]

99 base DEX, +5 normal job bonus which you never lose +10 blessing +10 owl's eye 2 from novice armlets + attention concentrate = 141 dex

You didn't slot zeroms in those armlets yet, that's 147 dex. Apple o Archer and you have instant, with a staff of piercing.

- armlet gives 1int 1 str. No dex
- SN cant use staff of piercing.
-SN gets more hp per vit point at 99

-Adding this with the way you want it for pvp would completly kill those surviving in pvp with their +10 stats using it.

-10 vit gives about 250 hp. which is a lot for a sn , including protection from certain stuff.

-10 agi is helpfull too since caster SN can actualy get 170 180 flee without using any points in agi simply with normal caster gear(ToH wings , Orc Baby card , Improve dodge skill, agi up.

-10 dex is a must for those relying on the +10 to survive. Allow you to stay with instant cast while using the remaing points not used in vit.

- 10int... nothing to say exept its adds me over 150 magic attack at 99 .

And that's all for a simple caster class. so not making it usable in pvp is ... a no from me.

How much do you pay your Link-slave to remove the death penalty that is 99% sure to happen?

and hardly benefits anyone (there's less than 5 active SN that's above lv 95, let alone 99/99).

I wonder why they aren't more...maybe because the bonus is lost in 95% of cases, and the 5% who don't lose it don't risk their bonus, making themselves useless. How fun a dilemma.

- SN cant use staff of piercing.

Even when Soul Linked?

-SN gets more hp per vit point at 99

But until they get there they could as well paint a bit target "kill me" on themselves, with 500 base HP at 98 plus VIT, max of ~1000. Pupa is a nice 700, but it doesn't count as base HP afterwards.

At 99, the base becomes a more comfortable 2500 base, could potentially reach 5000 with 100 VIT, and with some gear, *maybe 6-7k*. I doubt that a Super Novice would go full VIT though.

This isn't enough to survive any mid-end dungeon, not even high-end, with certainty. Forget Thanatos, Pyramids/Sphinx might kill you. Sure, certain other classes have similar max HP (or not that much more), but if they die, no big deal to them. Any MVP is very likely to kill you, without even trying to. Most deal 2-3k a hit normal attack.

- armlet gives 1int 1 str. No dex

I thought it was 1 all stats, my mistake.

-Adding this with the way you want it for pvp would completly kill those surviving in pvp with their +10 stats using it.

Well, it isn't me saying it is hax, you know. I'm going by what everyone seems to think of it, that OMG, keeping the bonus is too much. But somehow allowing it in pvp is just fine?

[Frogboy]

you forgot about the +1 to luk too wallee

i've only made enough SN to know better lol.

what's funny is we're only talking about instacast here, which i guess would be the bigger threat, but i dunno.

considering you will get the same skills for your melee build, only trading your magic spells for your weapon buffs like sword mastery and such, you could still hit instacast in melee build, or at least be close enough to it that casting buffs on yourself, and healing yourself while attacking your enemy will be pretty easy, not to mention you'd be using SW and pneuma to prevent damage.

is there anyway you'll kill off the higher end mvps? probably not, but the lower end ones yea, they won't be a problem.

[Little Sara]

How would you go about beating Moonlight Flower? She casts multiple bolts, two at a time on same target. SW and Pneuma don't prevent this as far as I know. Also Moonlight + 4 or 5 Ninetails would down a SW pretty fast, and it cant be recast on same cell. She would normal-hit for enough to nearly one-shot you, and I'm not even taking Mammo into account. Even 300 flee isn't enough with her mob alive.

Same problem for GTB with the Mammo. Though his mob is easier to kill. Anyone who can stay far away enough can take GTB though, just not assassin cross usually (Mammo one-shots them) unless they're SD build.

Amon Ra loves casting coma and placing Fire Pillars everywhere.

Doppel loves his Hammerfall lv 11, and he walks and attacks fast both. Nightmares are not that easy to kill because of their element either.

Mistress and Baphomet love their high-end wind spells that send you the other end of the world, and Mistress at least, has a huge mob, and they stun you.

RSX has Earthquake, even with Ghostring and Assumptio, it probably would one shot a SN.

I don't know all MVPs, but except maybe RSX, the others are all old.

--------

Those are all instances where, lacking a big party, you are 99% sure to die. If in a party, well, nothing different than Wizards MVPing - as in, nothing special.

[Frogboy]

i didn't say old, i said lower end. don't misread something and go blabbing like you know it all when you're not even arguing the right thing to begin with.

also, since we both came from the same server (and granted the MvP skills did change since then) i'm pretty sure there was an SN there that could go around killing MvPs and frequently did, but that's an entirely different matter as they royally screwed up the mechanics there.

anyway, i notice you just like to argue, so for the sake of decency i'm not gonna debate back on this.

[Little Sara]

Pretty sure that SN who went around killing MVPs lost his bonus. That's what I'm saying.

You either:
1) Risk the bonus in pvp/woe/MVP and lose it for sure
then you

a) Get a Soul Linker to restore it (which could take hours if its more than 1-2 deaths)

or

b) Forget the bonus

2) Don't risk the bonus by never going in places where you may lose it. Which makes SN useless except to have a shiny aura and look cute.