So I am ignoring your arguments lemme copy paste ares where you lack response or adding wss to bw was proved to be not that negative. If a Gm closes this thread it would not be to my flame like posts, I am trying my best not to flame. anyways.
A grand List of my arguments for wss inclusion into bw
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Seth~ Wrote:Merellis Wrote:Witched Starsands are not used in a ton of items, they're used in ONE, count it with me now, ONE item. So this argument doesn't work either, along with the lack of supply in vendors, and the pricing of them. None of those arguments work.
Ok so wss is not used in a ton of skills. Ok lets count: one slim white twilight, 2, 3 .... this can go on a while. The TON is in the number of items that it makes in comparison to other items in bee wings.??your sarcasm. Plz elaborate where you proof me wrong.
So here I argue that wss is used more in comparison to other skills since more items can/is created in comparison to other skills. aka more supply can easily be absorbed into the system. Thus that argument needs a reply.
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Seth~ Wrote:Merellis Wrote:100% drop rate, easy to kill monsters, maps with a high amount of them
Agreed they do have a 100% drop rate like many other items in the bw, easy to kill monsters like many other items in the bw, maps with a high amount of them < assuming bathories like many other items in the bw.
So here it is argued that wss is dropped from 2 monsters, previously it was pointed out by me & other ppl (I can draw the quote if desired) that the best place to farm wss is at bathory. So easy to drop is then further attacked since wss requires a item to enter and a lot of warping & walking. Lastly the map contains warps that automatically kicks you out of the map. Thus that argument needs a reply.??
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Seth~ Wrote:Merellis Wrote:there is no reason to add them to Bee Wings, they're easy to farm and can be accumulated at a frightening speed, all of your arguments have been countered
They are easy to farm just like many other items in bw, some can even be bought from npc's. They can just as easily accumulate fast at frighting speed, especially the ones from a npc.
This freighting speed that wss can be accumulated, now then if you argue that justify wss exclusion against the inclusion of these items: blue gemstone, empty bottle, green live, red blood, Professional Cooking Kit, red gemstone, Royal Cooking Kit, Wind of Verdure, Yellow Gemstone.
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Ellie Wrote:Bathories aren't hard by any stretch of the imagination. My gypsy can OHKO them with AV, so I imagine it would take all of about 2DSes. Hardl strenuous.
Are verit, hornet, anacondaq hard - just to mention a few. btw they all drop items listed in the bee wings.
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Seth~ Wrote:So its flawed to say ohh noes bathory card will spike price wise. It probably will go up slightly and not go up beyond 20m-aka that would be unsustainable. Many ppl agree with the stand point that the price will only slightly fluctuate if wss where to be included in bee wings. Aka bee wings without wss is unfair.
No reply.
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Seth~ Wrote:Anyways back to what suppream GM-Rahice said. Zeny Sink its questionable ok that is a given. Back to the previous part of the current post items like blue gemstone was removed from a zeny zink formulation. aka zeny zink did not matter to GM's at the time of the blue gemstone insertion.
It was previously argued that wss in bw can be a zeny zink. I do not agree with that. However small zeny zinks like a npc where you can buy blue gemstones does not matter.
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Seth~ Wrote:I doubt that ppl hunt wss for long unless they brew aka more need for wss from bee wings. If you claim other wise now lets see its called a new invention dg you can afk practically and get the exp to trans. So the requirement for wss maps for exp is baseless.
I missed a reply.
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Seth~ Wrote:adjusting the /alchemist or /blacksmith or nobility ranking would be unfair. Totally agree with you on that. But why punish wss with it exclusion?
I thought we have established that wss inclusion into bw would have a minor effect especially if the GM's make it so. So effectively the wss in bw would have a minor effect on the /alchemist ranking.
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Seth~ Wrote:Really how sad that forgers do not get extra drops from bee wings. However wss is not in mining right? but all(i think) of the forger items is in mining.
Seth~ Wrote:About mining. So you agree the lack of wss elsewhere is bias basically. Seth Score! Why do you want to drag fishing in does it drop items used by skills as consumables. Since this would prove my point. If not I was under the impression that it drops consumables for healing of sp and hp aka a replacement for brewing. Whats the problem there? It was like this before so accepted.
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Seth~ Wrote:I got why its not a good idea, but then please elaborate why blue gemstones, immortal heart, and karvos, is in bee wings. Since this inclusion is clearly balanced and wss exclusion is not balanced.
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Seth~ Wrote:I do not get why most extensive choice range for bee wings is not implemented in the first place, but again. You attack wss exclusion on the basis that other items is also excluded aka bias.
I get it would be work to check all this items needed, but I do not get why this anti-bias action was not done before the implementation of bw. But the attempt here is to justify the exclusion of wss in bw, by stating bw is not balanced. Then balance all this mods that allows item generation for various classes.
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Seth~ Wrote:That said how can this bais nature be justifiably fair considering that wss is used to create a healing item that can be used to heal. Thus in comparison to other items in bee wings is/can be used much more frequently. aka a greater need exists to have wss in bee wings since its more strenuous to farm wss in comparison to others to attain similar goals set out by various skills.
??I believe this was partially answered just do not recall where. Lemme rephrase wss farming is strenuous like any other item in bw before the introduction of bw. However more items is in comparison created.
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Seth~ Wrote:Yes and by adding wss it would bring bee wings into more of a balance with other items added in bee wings. The general tenancy to increase class specific items required for skills got a major boost from bee wings. In the long term such acts will probably make the server more healthy. Laziness is a product of I wanna be somewhere else that is what the GM should discourage imo.
this I believe was a reply to balancing bee wings or something no argument against this afterwards (i think).
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mahawirasd Wrote:imho bee wings have done a far greater "offense" by allowing immortal hearts and karvo...
i wasn't much of a farmer, but my wife and i made a bit of money supplying immo hearts and karvo before bee wings. I reckon people still farm and sell them today, so i contend that the same will happen with WSS (should they ever be added to bee wings)
Ok I have tried to copy & paste arguments/comments that favour wss inclusion in bw, some of them has been replied to, some lack some ignored. Here is a time to catch up. (from page 7)
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