heRO SvN Update

[Darkblade]

by using a standalone script, you remove the need to re-modify distro (trunk) scripts every time the svn is updated. Depending on how often svn is updated, you save a lot of time.

with the method used now, the OCA will need to be re-modified every time svn is updated. by using the waterlogged, you can not only make sure that only the cards you wanted out are removed, but can at the same time prevent new cards from being added to it without your knowledge on an svn update.

[GM-Ayu]

It's not hard to adjust a new OCA or default OCA. A click of the "show diff" button with turtoisesvn solves many problems.

[conch]

The problem I see is that (as Albus mentioned) that there are already too many GR cards floating in this server - basically due to fishing. So maybe the problem isn't that there is a GR card in OCA, it is that OCA is too easy to get on this server. By removing the possibility to get those "easy" GR cards the ones existing increase enormly in value. That doesn't sound fair. It would be like taking Alice Doll out of hatter or something like that. Everybody who already got one is lucky, everybody else ... *shrug* poor guy. It doesn't sound right to make a card which is already VERY present on the server to a MvP card.

um i remember reading a thread about new players not getting the chance to benefit from the things old players used to get. The logic was simply that if something is imbalanced already, it's better to change it than not all. Ya, i think it was about the fishing nerf. Plus, GR's are really meant to be rare. Ice picks before were super cheap since it was way easier to get one through the sinx mvp, although now it's really expensive.

About the waterclogged card album thing, as long as it gives GR's or Angelings, i think it beats the point of the OCA nerf. It's really hard for newer players to adapt with super beneficial cards, just like devilings and maya purples that were available on ocas before, but just like GR's, those were taken out too.

[Nidsrule]

@"RMS script" did it!

RMS is getting weird scripts from I have no idea where... for example, Valorous Huuma Front Shuriken:

{ bonus bStr,2; bonus bDex,1; bonus2 bAddRace,RC_DemiHuman,95; bonusautoscript "{ sc_start4 SC_SKILLATKBONUS,10000,525,544,0,10; }",50; bonus bUnbreakableWeapon,0; },{},{}

There is no such thing as sc_skillatkbonus in my const file. Server says that the command is not known (I use 13923 stable for my own test dev where i made most items for our upcoming svn.) It's probably not from trunk either since trunk got autobonus already, so there's no need to use bonusautoscripot sc_start... I have no idea what's RMS doing *at all*, and their monster databases lately aren't following stable OR trunk.

The lack of "SC_SKILLATKBONUS" or "autobonus" does not allow the scripting of roughly 4 BG items. Mostly the gunslingers' stuff lol.

Suffice to say, RMS is no longer a valid authority in technical discussions as well.

That is why I linked the SVN changes from the eathena site. I'm well aware of RMS' shortcomings, in the sense that it does include some items that are server exclusive (the GM's on those servers have added their own content outside of what eAthena releases). I merely used RMS as a starting point to find the script then reverted to looking back at what eAthena had added to it's SVN releases (although I didn't look as far as to see if they were all in the latest Stable releases).

@ Elemental Armors:
Being elemental they all have the same weakness due elemental properties. Sure, people won't always know what property the enemy is using, just as people aren't always aware of what endows people use in PvP settings, but that's the point. Earth and Wind endows are typical in a WoE setting, so both the wind and water armors are very risky when facing SinX, LK's etc.

Why do you list the water armor as being the most overpowered of the bunch?

[Ultima_Pi]

Doddler says Staff of Ord[1] is dropped by Moonlight.

Why Zmey here?

[GM-Ayu]

Doddler says Staff of Ord[1] is dropped by Moonlight.

Why Zmey here?

Similar to Eddga's thing, the original item holding mvp is reasonably popular with moonlight dagger and long mace being equips that resisted themselves from being outdated against new equipments. Thus I moved them to mvps that are sensible to hold them (item description relates the staff to dragons, and detale got enough stuff as is, so zmey is the next closest 'dragon' though that thing is a brute) and can need the increased popularity.

I'll add this explanation to the front as it seems to be a frequent question~

[Jasper]

what happened to keeping everything as close as possible to the "official" standards?

[GM-Ayu]

what happened to keeping everything as close as possible to the "official" standards?

Pretty sure that was kinda moved to be only tiebreaker calls in this svn (like the oca issue with GR/Angeling)... like how all new world monsters are customized as it's honestly hard to even look at new world without changes being smacked by a normal insect monster that hurts more than valk mvp does, and then the monsters are really just giant smack-athons and spamming the same skills that we saw plenty of even in older updates (more pulse strike, more HJ, more SB)

I don't think I'll remotely call heRO a server that strives to be an official clone. We have customs everywhere to be one of those. Part of private server (to me) is really to fix things that didn't go as optimal as they could have been on the officials.

[Nidsrule]

Part of private server (to me) is really to fix things that didn't go as optimal as they could have been on the officials.

What exactly are you referring to when you talk about official content that isn't "as optimal as they could have been"?

Private servers generally don't make huge changes to existing content changes/additions made on officials, at least from my experiences of having played both official and private servers for extended periods of time. You have eA trying to emulate what gets released and in rarer cases you get the occasional server who picks up where eA leaves off and emulates content before eA gets around to it. Yes, private servers will add a lot of custom content, but this rarely pertains to changing the mechanics of official content but rather the addition of content which builds upon RO's base gameplay mechanics. In most cases, there is nothing that needs "fixing" unless eA fails to emulate it due to limitations in their scripting language.

The only other possible reason to make changes to official content is if the servers community doesn't allow for it. Getting back to Tripp's question, heRO's community is very different compared to official servers. I don't want to get into a discussion about what people prefer in a community, as on most officials the community has much more focus on end game content, whereas heRO does not. In heRO's case, people seem much more content in sitting around in pront or spending all day mining/fishing, as opposed to having a focus on farming high end MvP's and/or PvP and WoE.

That's not to say that heRO doesn't have members of it's community that prefer the end game aspects of RO, but these people certainly come across as being in the minority.

[Ardney Wolf]

@Ardney:
(point about BG weap benefit for newer players)

Take the exact reverse: it helps veterans stomp the new players more by cutting 20% of the little defenses that they have. Not saying that you are making false claims, but it's "neutralized" out by the exact opposite, so I don't consider that a pro since it comes with an equal con.

Except it's not at all equal. If some newb walks in with 20 def and 20% of that is cut he's down to 16. Both numbers are crap and wouldn't have saved him from the vets anyway. But take a vet with 60 def and cut 20% and you're removing 3x as much defense. It's a much better chance.

And again, my point was not that BG weaps magically make everyone equal, merely that they can help people to be useful in WoE sooner.

(Point about classes having roles to fill in BG 1)

Except again some class excel in one area but can't exactly take up flexible roles. BG1 still follows the same problem too though at least you got 5 minute natural cooldown against ragging the match. Instead of classifying as killer/support, BG1 got defender/attacker classification generally, and having only one without enough of the other, you still lose due to inferior class distribution. You can say BG1 fixes this by choosing. However, Small pvp community results in people knowing pretty darn well who's who, and now you can go "oh hey x player is 1337 and x is in north team but y player who sucks is in south team, I'm soooo going north."

Well, they are mini War instances, not tea and crumpet parties. Just like in WoE things are not always even due to attendance and guild makeup, BGs are not always going to be even for the same reasons. Just because the teams aren't guaranteed to be evenly matched 100% of the time doesn't mean BGs should not be implemented as is. Besides, after a match ends, the people on the losing team have the opportunity to try to stack with the winners again and this in itself will shake up the teams as space is finite. Additionally, if there are more people available than slots, the team composition is guaranteed to change due to the cooldown. It's a non-issue.

"You're still getting medals"

Now isn't that convenient for contributing to the suicidal approach~

Again, another non-issue. People attempting to get medals are rarely a homogenous group from a single guild. The best way to prevent farming is having other guilds competing to stop you. More often than not, this happens. Even if it isn't organized resistance from a guild, many farming attempts are ruined by random people that actually want to play (or grief ) because farming is boring.

And even if everyone did agree to farm...so what? It's their choice. The weapons are getting onto the server anwyay in short order. They were never meant to be rare which can readily be seen by the mere 100 medal requirement for all BG1 weaps and armor with the medallions being most costly at 500. These aren't MVP cards we're talking about. It's actually supposed to be fairly standard gear. That you have to do a little work to get it does not change that fact.

"(summarized) worked on iRO regardless of worries"

When you have the reasonable large sample, the teams are largely randomized fairly because spots in the 2 rooms fill up fast. Even if say we open up one room, does heRO going to get 20 people filling up at a *fast* rate to stop people from switching teams/organizing suiciders/guild hogging though...? You're demanding just slightly less than 10% of the server to join the game, and to randomize it by filling up fast like iRO can, you'll need an even bigger portion of the server population to join *consistently*.

Let me tell you how it actually played out on Valk when BGs were 1st released... it was slow. Most people didn't get it or weren't aware (yay illiteracy -_-). The matches were played by the same set of 20-30 people that shared a time zone. Once people understood the concept and started putting the word out to their guilds, there was more demand and the matches started filling much faster and the waiting rooms got more crowded. Once general awareness was raised, the BG population would sharply spike after every WoE as people went there to keep their adrenaline going as opposed to the PvP rooms.

My point is this: You only need a handful of people to make BGs work. Look at your WoE attendance and you know for a fact that you have enough people. It's that simple.

Personally, I only see the rush of people coming to try, IF it's GM hosted.

You're looking at it the wrong way.
Look at the way the PvP rooms spike after each WoE. They're not coming because GMs are there to make everything fair and even, they're coming because of the latent adrenaline and the need to geta few more kills in. Now, add in the structured nature of BGs and the added incentive of gear and the attendance will take care of itself. Have a little faith in the population and be willing to risk a laissez-faire approach. You'll be surprised.

@BG equipment release? (in case if this is brought up)

@adjusting BG equip?

I defy you to show me a single BG1 gear that is overpowered when looked at in the context of other BG1 gears being released in the same environment. They do nothing but serve to augment the existing classes specialties. They are not imbalanced. They don't need to be adjusted.

@slotted elemental armor:

no only the water one is the "iffy" one... no one cares about earth, fire is just icing but not gamebreaking. Wind is wizzy hate but wizzy seriously aren't meant for pvp in my opinion (they're a team player, and again I don't think that RO makes any sense outside of GVG/WoE). It's usually not so much weapons, but rather water marc/ED's affect on spells precast turning to crap as if it's not pottable enough. Water marc heavily negates SG (slap on glorious ring and the usual valk shield, and water immunity is obtained), resists MS reasonably well, and LoV is just pitiful even with elemental advantage. You really weaken a spellcaster's role down to "locking people" or just hitting people who aren't adequately equipped.

1st off, unslotted wind is what you're thinking of, not water as it works better against SG than water would. [edit]This statement was actually inaccurate. Water works better against the specific attack (SG) than wind. However, Unfrozen Wind is the superior armor for WoE due to other reasons. This is what I was getting at.

2nd...

So let me get this straight, you're refusing to implement slotted elemental armors because the wizards may not like it??? Who CARES!?! Ghostrings shut down Biochems and Paladins, no one demands they be removed. Pneuma Shuts down Hunters/Snipers, Slingers, and Biochems, no one demands it gets removed! But implement an armor that might force a wizard to use a different attack or rely on their teammates to kill someone (which, I might add EVERY other class has to do from time to time) and we cry foul? I have a bit of an issue with that.

Now, it's certainly not my decision, of course. You guys are free to set things up as you see fit. But I'd seriously ask you to revisit your decision here if that was the reason for choosing to exclude those items as, in my opinion, it's not a very good reason at all.