Massive Changes to Woe/BG

[GM-Pandora]

I'm reading, I'm sure other GMs are too. Constructive suggestions are always welcome.

1) What do the other ppl with mvp/boss/goditem think about this, I'm not convinced they will be as supportive as you (Shinibu), although I wouldn't be sad to be proven wrong. I think people who worked hard for their gear will say so and they wont be wrong. I'm not closed to the idea, I look forward to hearing more feedback.

2) Back and forth argument we've had dozens of time. But just for the sake of it, what if 1 guild dominates the 1 castle, it's fun for them, for a while, but then if all other guilds give up? Then it's no fun for anyone.

3) Like Albus I'm not convinced we have enough people for this. We did however want to try something along the lines of a Light VS Dark SE.

4) Some of that is being worked on, it's on the test server already, however some of the modes you mention are from a different emulator.

But how to make a woe without mvps? All players that GMs love and donators have tons of mvps and they don't know how to play without: GMs can't make this people sad. U are fool Will?

Yeah because everyone knows how much AMJ love each other! Such a nonsensical claim, as for the second, what donators? The donations we get don't even cover a third of the server's expenses, I pay it out of my pocket, ingrate!

[Shinibu]

2) Back and forth argument we've had dozens of time. But just for the sake of it, what if 1 guild dominates the 1 castle, it's fun for them, for a while, but then if all other guilds give up? Then it's no fun for anyone.

Right now how many people actually woe here? Do we have at minimum 3 guilds of 20 people consistently woeing? When i played at other servers, it was an absolute blast having 4 guilds of 24 guild cap duking it out in one castle. Sandwiching one guild so the next will move into fight or having 2 guilds try to take out the one defending. If this server had at least 60+ people woeing on a consistent basis I would agree that 2 castles might be worth it. But with the current population that the server has, I dont see any reason why more then 1 castle should even be open.

[Himo]

but like it hasbeen said, people that would normally join dont do because of all these mvp cards running around. i have none since im new but i dont feel like trying to do a guild and WoE . people Woeing atm must be the one with the uber gear, ghostring or thing like that.

These people wont say yes to the no Mvp card thing and WoE will stay the same

[Debris]

Isn't there a way to create a 3rd typ of WoE, a mvp/mini free one. So people without mvp's/mini's can join that one in equal fight and farm their mvp/mini cards and join the other woe where they are allowed.

Since we have atm 3 castles, use 1 castle for the non mvp/mini WoE, and keep the other 2 open for now for regular WoE.

[demishock]

Isn't there a way to create a 3rd typ of WoE, a mvp/mini free one. So people without mvp's/mini's can join that one in equal fight and farm their mvp/mini cards and join the other woe where they are allowed.

Since we have atm 3 castles, use 1 castle for the non mvp/mini WoE, and keep the other 2 open for now for regular WoE.

This was my thought, too. We've got the special non-trans retro WoE, so it seems like a no-MVP-cards version would be along that same line. Rather than having it INSTEAD of regular WoE, it'd be IN ADDITION TO regular WoE.

[Deviluke]

Can I please just know why everyone is so afraid of change?

We changed from 2 to 3 castles and it didn't work, so why do we still have the argument of "going from 2 to 1 will kill woe"? Then just change it back like we did with 2 to 3 castles then back to 2. Honestly, this argument that 1 guild will dominate WoE if it's only 1 castle is ridiculous and old. Having 3 castles killed it if anything, we changed from 2 for that joke of a WoE, and honestly changing from 2 to 1 castle can't make it anymore dead than it already is at this point.

[GM-Rahice]

I'd be more supportive of first trying going back to 2 castles personally than dropping straight to 1 off the bat. I may or may not be right in that aspect, but it's just an opinion.

I think a non-mvp card WOE would be fun.

Don't know enough about SE to make an opinion on it.

I can guarantee that they've been working on some of the last part, like Panda said. But, I don't want to give away things I shouldn't. We'll just say that you should be happy with it :o

[Former-GM-Patton]

One other topic that GMs will ignore.
Are passed years that people speak about woe 2.0 and new BGs, but GMs ALWAYS ignore. Why you think that they will care about this?

But how to make a woe without mvps? All players that GMs love and donators have tons of mvps and they don't know how to play without: GMs can't make this people sad. U are fool Will?
Just leave GMs think about cute hats and cute events asd

Seriously. Try to have some respect for once in your life, ingrate.

[Deviluke]

I'd be more supportive of first trying going back to 2 castles personally than dropping straight to 1 off the bat. I may or may not be right in that aspect, but it's just an opinion.

Unless I misunderstood everyone totally wrong, this comment doesn't make much sense. We are currently at 2 castles (i.e. 2 open at the same time) so we can't really go back to 2 castles. Hence why we're asking for it to become 1 castle (only one open at a time) so that anyone who wants to fight is forced into the same castle.

This was the major problem with 3 castles and even 2, is that half the time it's just one huge game of cat and mouse. It end up being really tiresome and just a waste of time overall.

"Oh look Guild X is at Castle A! Well shit, let's all go to Castle B." So by the time Guild X gets to the Emp room of Castle A, Guild Y is already in town going to hide in/take Castle B, with 0 GvG or challenge whatsoever. Because by the time Guild X realizes and tries to follow, it's just a rinse and repeat of the same thing. It's a War of Emperium, not a foot race. =/

[Gojira]

Most of your suggestions make sense - except implementing WoE SE on heRO.??I don't know how the WoE scene is lately as I've been too busy to play much but last time I was around heRO didn't have anything near the population needed to support WoE SE.??And "proper" WoE SE is pretty boring.??Most guides about how to play your role well in WoE SE involve any particular class mashing the same skill and pot spamming (cf. Defensive LP Prof, Devo Paladin, High Priest (they get to mash multiple skills), etc.).??I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth trying to implement here, but the last time I did WoE SE I was actually even more bored than dealing with the BS that FE WoE entails.??Just my opinion.??

On heRO I feel like WoE SE would be a weird cluster**** but I suppose it could at least be funny.

Actually, the proper way of doing SE ended up being that way mostly because most RO players cannot handle multiple tasks at a time, at least not nearly as efficiently as you saw in videos. Let's face it, the times where guilds were filled with good players are long gone.

I'll agree that SE here would be weird mostly because there's no guild with enough players to fill a minimal roster (anything under 15 players) so it would be weird to see what classes each guild would be ready to drop and the result it gives XD

I'm reading, I'm sure other GMs are too. Constructive suggestions are always welcome.

1) What do the other ppl with mvp/boss/goditem think about this, I'm not convinced they will be as supportive as you (Shinibu), although I wouldn't be sad to be proven wrong. I think people who worked hard for their gear will say so and they wont be wrong. I'm not closed to the idea, I look forward to hearing more feedback.

2) Back and forth argument we've had dozens of time. But just for the sake of it, what if 1 guild dominates the 1 castle, it's fun for them, for a while, but then if all other guilds give up? Then it's no fun for anyone.

3) Like Albus I'm not convinced we have enough people for this. We did however want to try something along the lines of a Light VS Dark SE.

4) Some of that is being worked on, it's on the test server already, however some of the modes you mention are from a different emulator.

But how to make a woe without mvps? All players that GMs love and donators have tons of mvps and they don't know how to play without: GMs can't make this people sad. U are fool Will?

Yeah because everyone knows how much AMJ love each other! Such a nonsensical claim, as for the second, what donators? The donations we get don't even cover a third of the server's expenses, I pay it out of my pocket, ingrate!

1) I'm probably the player who holds the most god items and in the top 5 for MVP cards and I support what he's saying at 100%. Every single time I left the server in search of better woe, I aimed for ones who focused on no mvp card SE WoEs because they're by far the most equal and enjoyable ones, especially when they have the right BG to support that type of WoE. People who aren't ready to WoE without their precious little grs, drs, mvps and whatever just know they're bad and won't be able to do anything without them. Anyway, with the current amount of GTBs on the server, anyone who knows what they're doing would dominate SE, it would literally become a who has the most GTBs contest.

2) I'd agree with you if the losing guild actually tried to eco break and attack the castle the other guild owned every WoE to break their eco but this hasn't been the case in YEARS. Since the end of DoE, the extra castle has always been taken by guilds who put little to no efforts into WoE and just get a castle given to them for being able to run multiple trappers or making 10 players log on at the last 10 minutes.

3) Forget unorganized SE with half the players being on sniper, that's just silly. I'll agree the server lacks the playerbase for SE but if you promote the WoE has a MvP free SE and you actually put the right BG in place for new players to have a chance to be WoE ready within one or two months, you might be able to draw new players instead of always having the same old vets WoEing.

4) It's great to hear that new mods are being worked on but is there also going to be proper rewards associated to them (BG/WoE locked materials, NORMAL priced gears) because if not, new mods won't change a thing to the scenery, especially if you keep making BG unspammable. BG isn't made to be a zeny sink, it's made to be a speedup for new players to obtain pvp/woe equipments.

Last but not least, he specified the MVP owners who can't play without them so please, don't include me in that category. Anyone who ever WoEd with or against me on actual WoE servers knows I can trash baddies even without my qtpie itamz.