Regarding fish/pot spamming in WoE

[Nagi]

it's already been said. everything has a counter.
what's a knight gonna do fighting against a few people if he's been "full stripped?" he'll burn fish and die eventually.

Yes everything has a counter, however, when a Professor runs the risk of a 30% backlash on his Soul Burn, and the enemy takes only only a nominal risk (less than 30%) to recover from it, that is unbalanced. In this case, the counter (fish) are unbalanced.

say we disable fish, then people buy white pots and blue pots, etc. what does the argument devolve to? "the people with more money can buy pots, disable please?" if people put in the time to fish, it should be allowed. it's the same as people having the time to level and/or farm zeny for pots.

This is a classic example of a slippery slope argument, just because one thing may happen, doesn't mean you can automatically assume the world will end. Please stay rational. Also, this will help give business back to Alchemists who can then make 'WoE Potions'

the argument just goes round and round. those without fish will complain about fish. those without zeny will complain about people who have pots, yggs, etc.

Anyone can obtain fish, with ease. You just need to fish for them. You are basically describing the way an economy works, this has no bearing on the discussion, resources are resources are resources. Moving on..

fish isn't really gamebreaking. it's just another thing to actually think about and counter. and i'm not really sure where the idea came from that the GMs didn't think about fish in woe and the strats possible. fish were on their old server and a lot of arguments were already made there.

As my example above states, its not possible for a professor to effectively 'counter' an item that nullifies the effects of a massively risky attack. Remember, Soul Burn = 30% fail rate, Fish = much less than 30% fail rate.

people sell fish in pront. if u don't have the time to fish, then buy. if u don't have the zeny, then you would have lost to someone who knows how to pot. adding coma or disabling them or adding 50% chance of status is just... overkill?

This discussion is not about the ease of obtaining fish. But rather their effects on combat against normal in-game strategies.

[Sekaru]

2 things first off theres a reason why Eathena removed all blue pots from npc's i.e you can't buy blue pots anymore wich means fish become that much stronger cause not only are they half white pot but half a pot you can only get by having an alchy make them for you wich greatly kills the use of alchies... and I wouldn't be complaining if you only got well.. fish from fishing... thing is now while your hunting those tiny items while sitting and clicking you get the chance to get an almost mvp exclusive drop!? (OcA) yeah thats when things get broken.. and the new spots oca drop is even higher.../swt

[wussypuff]

yeah

I WANT TO BE USEFUL

[Aaronock]

Yes everything has a counter, however, when a Professor runs the risk of a 30% backlash on his Soul Burn, and the enemy takes only only a nominal risk (less than 30%) to recover from it, that is unbalanced. In this case, the counter (fish) are unbalanced.

To be quite honest...I never really like using soul burn in woe about...95% of the time, I expect most people to have honey or something, some way out of that sp loss that was probably experienced. Soul Burn to me is a very good 1vs1 skill or a small group fight *such as 5 vs 5* but nothing like what WoE is in all its hecticness. Besides soul burn has that nasty nasty thing where you can't cast it every two seconds anyway. Also you can use pots afterwards from the backlash should you feel a true need to burn anything at least in woe and not feel bad about it. In pvp 1vs1 you gotta either suck it up and wait for the sp regen to tick so you can health conversion, or well-die

Fish just are problematic when it comes to the dory and the nemo it sounds like. I keep saying that ygg seeds and berries shouldn't be so easily spammable, even with the effects fish have. It sounds like on these two at least we need to up the chances of side effects occuring. Ygg berries and seeds were meant to be like last resorts to holding castles, not the thing you use to tank or however else it is used X_X

Also in ToH, fish favors fighters and champs more than it does other caster classes and alchemist class. I find it problematic to begin with that healing is allowed in the duels...
Then again that's a whole 'nother can of worms there!

[Astroboi]

Hope ya'll learned today's lesson: Soul Burn is 30% fail rate!

Wait what! It was about fish?

[Nagi]

Hope ya'll learned today's lesson: Soul Burn is 30% fail rate!

Wait what! It was about fish?

please re-read my counterpoints until you come away with more than that...

[Kadar]

say we disable fish, then people buy white pots and blue pots, etc. what does the argument devolve to? "the people with more money can buy pots, disable please?" if people put in the time to fish, it should be allowed. it's the same as people having the time to level and/or farm zeny for pots.

Not a lot of people are using salmon in WoE. It's more angelfish, dori, and nemo that are causing the unbalance. If we disable fish and people start buying whites and blues then good for them. They are spending more money and it's harder for them to keep that up week after week. Not only that but they would have to start hunting bapho jr for their ygg berry spammage. It's not unbalanced at all if you want to spend a few hours killing for a 1.5% drop to use in WoE. What is unbalanced is that you can fish up nemo and dory so easily. If the rate at which nemo and dory could be fished up was changed to .1% or less that wouldn't really be so bad but the people with the stock piles of fish in storage would have a big advantage. If angel fish and up (maybe better salmon and up) were disabled from WoE it would easily solve the problem. From then on only the people who really work hard at it can spam the ygg berries or seeds.

[Sekaru]

here I'll make a small post so everyone can read YOU CANNOT BUY BLUE POTS ANYMORE thanks have a good day

[Rhino_Man]

you CAN however farm items like strawberries, oranges, grapes, strawberry juices, grape juices, and blue potions off of monsters quite easily if you know how/where.

Also, if you get enough blue herbs (a good spot would be the giant herb map in umbala with a wizard + LoV) and get a RANKED alchemist to brew up some blue potions that weigh LESS then fish and yet heal almost 30% of a wizard's sp.

[Sekaru]

exactly but doing it this way not only makes the job harder but more interactive as well as giving worth to alchy's wich I thought was the point of an mmo.. you know the whole interaction with people thing ? XD