"General" PvP Rules Agreement

[Yuriohs]

Wait a min, so my dream of being part of a leet tourney might come tru?
well, maybe if the tourney has some HUGE benefits in it, and it was on a date most people could come (impossible XD)

When this happens, im resseting to BP

[GM-Ayu]

No this set of rules are for daily pvp events (meaning, you see an announcement "Meet (some location) for pvp event" and you go type of pvp). Well established tournament may deviate from this set of rules depending on who's hosting it or the nature of the event (eg. special rule changes may be involved if say, the pvp tourney is specific classes only).

As for "HUGE benefits" that's not the focus of this thread. Before we pull off pvp of *any* benefits, GMs need to get this done so we don't get crap every time we even try to host one of these.


@Krimlin: you are wrong here as I made sure to say, consider about the future as well. You said how scrolls are only weaker levels of existing spells, "no." Here I'll list out all the scrolls available at their maximum level

-adrenaline rush
-assumptio
-asperio
-Blessing
-B.S.S (holy armor change)
-Chemical Protection (of all kinds)
-Increase Agi
-Lex Aeterna
-Lord of Vermillion
-Magnificant
-Meteor Storm
-Repair Weapon
-Storm Gust
-Wind Walk
-Greed (not relevant to us though, we have it on by default sorta)

Some scrolls even have skills you cannot obtain normally:
-Evasion
-Shadow Armor Change

I asked to consider all spell scrolls that may come to the future. Fairy Auction will already introduce assumptio, asperio, wind walk and adrenaline rush. Are all of these going to be added in heRO? Besides the 4 from fairy auction, currently "no" but I rather plan for it in advance so we're all prepared instead of starting another one of these when we introduce new spell scrolls, if we are doing that at all.


Things Decided in Stone
-No healing/restoration items of any kind during battle (there are exceptions)
-Exception 1: condensed red potion, but only for Lif homunculus
-Creators can use homunculus but cannot resurrect homunculus
-no cute pets
-unlimited converters and ASPD potions

(Note: things in stone are 100% decided, no longer open to discussions)

Things that I'm leaning towards:
-unlimited gemstones, traps, poison bottles, acid bottles, fire bottles
-no limit on any skills, including their duration (exception: potion pitcher? any other skills may need caps?)
-stat food allowed (during pre-buff periods only, if any)
-battle is 3:00 long

Need your opinions on:
-Potion skills from chemist, allow or disallow or limit it?
-movement speed buffing items, allow or disallow?
-spell scrolls? (see earlier part of post for list of all scrolls)
-green potion/panacea vs lex divina?


Potion Pitcher argument: I got nothing new to add, just waiting for you people to sort it out.

Movement speed buffing item: try to exclude what "maps" pvp will be in and how movement speed buff items may vary in effectiveness depending on which "map." We're trying to set a general series of rules for events that may occur in more than just 1 map.

Spell Scrolls: see earlier part of post

Green Pot/Panacea: There are a few statuses that green pot cannot take care of. The main 2 are bleeding and curse. Bleeding can be caused directly by a LK skill (joint beat: neck beat, or head crush), while curse is caused by high wizard (napalm vulcan). In addition, some weapons/cards also cause these effects to both user or target. Lex Divina isn't the only skill directly affected. The reason why I lean towards yes Green Pot but no Panacea is that those 2 trans skills are not very often used, and not as crippling compare to lex divina where you basically lost all abilities. Not allowing green pot maybe too much as lex divina is overly powerful then. Plus, Lex Divina is on any priest, while LK/HWiz are both trans and they are using their trans-only skill.

On the reverse, allowing green pot is making lex divina, one of the priests' most powerful crippling skill, 100% useless. You can argue that people ought to be prepared using silence resistance/immune card or equipment should they see a potential lex divina coming then.

Allowing/Not limiting panacea/green potion also affects some status cards as well in terms of their effectiveness. The counter to that is that the game is designed for these status to coexist with panacea, yet remains effective anyway.

So there's the 2 sides of the argument that I presented there about that one.

[Kretzer]

My final opinion:

Leave Potion Pitcher alone, don't ban it nor limit it in anyway.

As much as i hate the Idea of Buffin food, i guess it does work out some builds. I guess it stays only in Prebuff.

Deadly Poison Bottles.... Why would you need more than 1? Its not like every class can dispell you, and it lasts more than 3 minutes right?
Same for ASPD pots, i think these items should be part of the Pre-Buff only, not to be used during battle.

Movement speed buffing items?? God no. That is going way too far imo. Not someting we really need in PvP fight.

Spell scrolls, as much as it sounds fun to have these, there are skills like Asump that are just way too powerfull for any class to be randomly using it.

Green pots vs Lex..... Lex is imo the worst crippling skill in the game. Leaving us with no other way to counter it but a Marduk card is just going overboard, if we're silenced, we suck. If a Priest can't silence us, he can still tank almost every class. So.. yeah. Unlimited Greens please. Or atleast a decent limit. Around 7~12?

As for Gemstones, Traps etc. I say every Catalyst for Active battle skills should be Unlimited, And any Pre-buff type of skill catalyst should be limited to 1 or 2 per fight.

[Général_Argos]

@Krimlin: you are wrong here as I made sure to say, consider about the future as well. You said how scrolls are only weaker levels of existing spells, "no." Here I'll list out all the scrolls available at their maximum level

-adrenaline rush
-assumptio
-asperio
-Blessing
-B.S.S (holy armor change)
-Chemical Protection (of all kinds)
-Increase Agi
-Lex Aeterna
-Lord of Vermillion
-Magnificant
-Meteor Storm
-Repair Weapon
-Storm Gust
-Wind Walk
-Greed (not relevant to us though, we have it on by default sorta)

Some scrolls even have skills you cannot obtain normally:
-Evasion
-Shadow Armor Change

I was talking about NORMAL SCROLLS not KAFRA ITEMS SCROLL -__-' I think it was obvious..

Things Decided in Stone
-No healing/restoration items of any kind during battle (there are exceptions)
-Exception 1: condensed red potion, but only for Lif homunculus
-Creators can use homunculus but cannot resurrect homunculus
-no cute pets
-unlimited converters and ASPD potions

Unlimited converters???That means unlimited use of a second class job skill for any classes? WOW...??And you guys and girls were not liking the idea of having for 30 sec a level 1 buff from a first job class...

Green pots I already told my opinion on it, same for PP.??

3 MINUTES fights is NOT ENOUGH!!!??Only argument for short fights was that the event would last too long.??But omg, if a fight last 30 seconds, it will still last 30 seconds, time limit being 3 mins or 30 mins.??Its only some fight that will last longer.??I suggest here 10 mins time limit.??

There is a point that we didn't talked abount.??Time limit break (nobody died) and two people dieing at the same time.??I suggest a rematch if two people die, and but I don't know for time limit break.??

[Aaronock]

LOL @ Krim's comment about converters.
Sages get no love Krim, they get no love! ;-;

[GM-Pandora]

trying to count the number of potion thrown during a fight is tedious, a number of potion for the whole event should be set,

Why would it be more tedious to set a limit for fights instead of the whole event? You do that for the toh but, I never liked that idea.

Because you actually have to count them during the fight, with your eyes, and you have 2 PVPers to check at the same time? That's much more tedious than checking people at the start only, and at the start it can even be done via npc if one is written up.

@Kretzer last I checked EDP did not last 3 minutes...

I'm liking the 3 minute limit to fight, at most go to 5 minutes. Really, if you can't kill your opponent that has no healing item in 5 minutes then it's called a tie.

As for the sage converters, they're the product of a skill, not the skill itself.

And scrolls, well I'd still say forbid them if it was up to me, because it's simpler, if we wanna get into "let's accept these scrolls but not those" it gets overly complicated. It doesn't really say on a scroll if it's from kafra or not, some of the ones ayu listed are not kafra item, they're just sitting in the database with currently no way to obtain them, who knows what plan gravity has for them (selling in kafra shop or adding to a monster).

Overall it's important to have fair rules of course, but it's equally important to have easy rules, as in, doesn't take 2 hours to read all the fine prints and exceptions.

Also, not too hard for a GM to check, the more you leave it up to 'GM eyes' the more there is room for complaints. "I saw him use 6 pots", "No way I only used 5 like the rule says", "He hid for 11 seconds and not 10", etc. we're not machines, we don't see everything, so the less complicated the better.

[Avalon_Fates]

...High Priest are going to take over this, that and paladins/creators. They can just slowly whittle you away while healing away the damage. Learn't this the hard way when I fought Bloody priest once.

[GM-Ayu]

As for what happens if time limit is over or both people die at once, it'll depend on what kind of pvp events.

I think converters are quite necessary just because they're "product of a 2nd class skill" doesn't mean it should be gone. Changing elementals for weapons is long part of pvp strats and more fundamental than even the buff foods. Some skills lose a significant amount of credit because it's forced normal. Without converters, you really put asura and bombs to be much more powerful than they should be because almost all skills will be "forced-normal" due to lack of converters. They aren't that tough to beat as there's plenty of options in gear changes to fight against it (unlike say, Assumptio Scroll where only sage and priest can really get around it along with dispel card... oh wait dispel card is mvp card.)

Converters are fine, and will be accepted by me. Other GMs, once again, may prefer to differ.

[teOx]

if you are spiral build, thats why. everyone knows spiral sucks dude.

not saying LK can beat a priest though... it would be hard/impossible for any LK to beat a good priest .

EDP lasts 1 minute only.

i like unlimited converters. no one will use more than 1 (2 MAYBE) per match... they last 3 minutes. i just dont think its important enough to limit, leave it alone and make it easier for everyone. (btw, im pretty sure krim meant endow by 2nd class skill) edit: yea what ayu said

unlimited greens yes. HP are hax enough . they will win without lex anyway

allow spell scrolls (just like if you had ele wings on). seriously wtf is priest gonna do if i wear angeling. must allow it so they have other attacks (and relying on custom gear is stupid). i see no other choice.

make it easy and ban all buff scrolls (not buff items, just scrolls).

[GM-Ayu]

I have my worries when snipers nuke me with IC Storm Gust, DS me with saharic gust bow with wind arrow once (or Wind Converter OABow), then IC SG me again for death cycle, ya? =o Freeze isn't something Sniper should do *that well* but with scrolls they can... thus why I am more for no spell scrolls either. These are the kinds of things plagiarizing bow stalkers do, but snipers can also do that with a scroll and do it even better now.

High Priests can start whacking people with a wind ghost or kasa or something.

But hey, if you convince me how having scrolls that are mostly wizard spells, thus favoring the naturally high dex class far more than everyone else will end up balancing things out instead of imbalancing them, bring it up now. The Priest class scrolls' potential danger should be quite obvious too.