Change the Length of Sunday WoE

[Zaratus]

@Nidsrule: This is recognized as an issue now because Behemoth is 1-1 1/2 hours alone in castle, having a full defense with nobody attacking them. Which is ridiculous boring and not the sense of WoE.

I think that shortening WoE to 1 hour will heaten up the fights. At the moment it is (as aggressor) at sunday: "Oh, WoE is 2 hours today. Apparently we don't have much chances holding a castle versus a Behe-Apok-Alliance. Why should I be ready at the very first second? It doesn't really matter if I come at 2 pm server time or maybe 2:15. Or 2:30. Or 3 pm."

What happens in NE atm is the following: Some people are coming at 2 pm and giving up soon because they only burn ressources and not having fun. Probably we couldn't hold a castle. At 3 pm some other people (those mentioned above) show up and see that almost nobody is online because the first people already disappeared. I agree that this is an internal issue BUT it is (at least I think so) an issue for most ATTACKING guilds. If you have a castle, you have to be there all the WoE time. I think most Defenders will agree that the first hour of sunday is pretty boring because Attackers won't ever attack SERIOUSLY.

I support Proxyt's opinion on this. If you had FIGHTS whole WoE long I wouldn't mind to keep it at 2 hours, but as it is at the moment, Sunday WoE is boring as hell. Nothing happens there in the first hour. I have been once or twice (due to my time zone) to a Wednesday WoE, it seemed to be more fun and with much more action.

And a personal issue is that I don't really have the "time" for two hour WoE at a sunday evening. Or well, I don't like to spend two hours of my sunday evening for 1 1/2 hours of boredom. Lol.

[Nidsrule]

Zaratus Wrote:@Nidsrule: This is recognized as an issue now because Behemoth is 1-1 1/2 hours alone in castle, having a full defense with nobody attacking them. Which is ridiculous boring and not the sense of WoE.

And yet when LW was econing a castle last year we used to cop the same thing. Maybe not all the time, but I still remember attending numerous WoE's that fit the above description perfectly. I just find it hard to swallow that people only now have a problem with it, even though they have been WoEing for such a long time.

[Diallo]

+1 to rob.

Honestly, Shortening the length of WoE is stupid. Nobody ever said you HAD to defend for the full time, now did we? Back when LW was active, We defended the full 2 hours,a nd the hour on wednesday. No complaints at all.. So why the sudden change? what, we gained 100 more people and 100 more Venders?

Damn, that seems like a big number to decrease the time of WoE. imo, Woe should be longer. Both Woe's 2 hours. More fun.

[Avalon_Fates]

To be honest, I feel WoE shouldn't be changed. LW toughed it out when for hours of WoE were just them standing there spamming spells and I'm sure other guilds have done the same thing over the years. If your bored because no one is attacking you, attack them. If your unhappy about the resources you spend, get more resources. If players are showing up and leaving without a good reason smack them in the face and tell them to get it together.

If we keep making WoE shorter to get more action why don't we make it 15 minutes. Those 15 minutes would be utter chaos and combat. Is that what you want?

Then you will just say "We didn't ask for 15minutes we asked for a hour." But why, to lesson your own guilds weakness's? To allow you to not have to defend for as long, So you don't have to attack for so long. I don't want to be here all day, I don't want to spend so much items, Not enough action, we don't get attacked, we cant attack, our players arn't showing up, Defending is boring, I don't want to spend two hours playing a game, It should be changed so that I get what I want.

People. Just because, something is slightly Dull, Harder, Easier or More expensive. Doesn't mean you should change it.

What happens then? We wait for everyone to be satisfied that WoE is to their liking again so we can have a 2 hour WoE? Do we make muspel Fridays so its alot easier for people like me to join who find most muspels are at ridiculous times?

Do we make ToH 5 person mass battles, Because a side isn't winning. Why not get rid of the whole mass battle thing and everyone would be happy? Free 10 points, you don't waste fish, don't have to worry about spending more time in ToH? Dont forget monster tho..Perhaps we make it request a monster? That way every class and player has it set up just like they like it? But then its to easy? So no doubt someone would start complaining about that.

Do we make Fishing give more OCA? Put GR back in the OCA? Do we make Anubis Miniboss or give it 10x more exp. Do we want everything they way we want it. Easy and Fun and BORING.

Wheres the fun in something so easy. Wheres the fun in something where anyone and everyone can achieve what you did with almost no effort. This is RO! Its not meant to be easy. We struggle for what we want. Sure some people find it easier to do then other. Doesn't change the fact the struggle is still there. We WoE for 2 hours because that's when its set. We make sacrifices whether its time or zeny or patience. To try and achieve victory. Soon as you start changing things that don't need to be changed. To make it easier, it would take away all the passion for the game. It just be another HighRate


Uh I apologize for the rant.

[Proxyt]

That's also a bad argument right there.

Because ___ had to do it previously, so should we.

Because my ancestors were racist and those ___ had to endure hardships, I should continue it that way.

I wasn't on the server when LW had to defend for 2 hours of empty castles, but they should've asked for a time change then.
If you're going to argue a point use better ones.

WoE is meant to be ACTIVE and EXCITING the entire time. No matter what happened in the past, we need to focus on the present/future.

People keep saying it should be 2 hrs because officially it's 2 hrs. Well officially all the castles are open too. Officially the rates are 1/1/1. Face it we're a private server we're different.

No one said 15 minutes. As I said before, 1 hr length WoE is perfect for a smaller server like ours. The attackers WILL need to be organized from the start of WoE to the end. Since you need about 3 coordinated attacks to take a defended castle. 15 minutes is not enough for that. 1 hr is enough for that and more in case you need a little luck or you want to disorganize the enemy more.

I've been WoE'ing for many years now (with breaks), and trust me. A WoE can and is supposed to be epic the entire way through. Early charges and disruption is one of the best WoE tactics to use as an attacker. But no one is even bothering with that. Attackers are logging in 1hr in after WoE starts before bothering to organize and attack.

Unlike certain concepts in RO... WoE is one server-customizable event that entices or pushes away players. When I search for a server, if I find one that has little to no WoE, I don't even bother with it. WoE to myself and a lot of people is the end game. And I've played a lot of MMORPG's in my life. If the end game is not fun, then the game is not fun, and it's time to move on. Some people find alternatives like socializing or MvP'ing, but I'm sure there is a large population of serious WoE players here.

And WoE is different on every server. Why do we even have the Wednesday WoE? It's because it caters to the entire heRO population.
Most things in the game are there because it'll improve the game for the majority of players.

You're complaining about Muspel Mondays being the wrong times for you? Holy crap, did you even read the Muspel times? They have it at different times every month JUST so everyone can have a shot at it. That's like the worst example you could've given because the GMs gave a lot of thought to it and decidedly made Muspel at multiple times so we could all try it out.

ToH mass battles caters to the MASS of people. It's like a democracy, you please as many as you can and those that are screwed are screwed. Sometimes GMs will try their best as with Muspel to be fair, but oftentimes its just satisfying as many as possible.

Almost none of the examples you gave are good examples of making stuff "easy, fun, and boring". putting GR's in OCA's does not make life fun for creators or paladins or many classes.

The point is not to be selfish and simply go "because -I- want it it should be this way" but because the majority of people on the server could use this, ALONG with myself, we are SUGGESTING it. That's why your examples don't work, they're all just selfish suggestions examples. Making WoE 1 hr long is not selfish as we have said before has benefits to all sides. I'll list some again in case you're not good at reading walls of text.

-Makes WoE more active (therefore more exciting and enticing, no one likes boring WoEs. Not defenders OR attackers.)

-Helps guilds to organize better (if there's only 1 hr to WoE, then you have to start doing it properly, showing up 30 min beforehand, getting geared/partied/pots/etc and making use of your time)

-Saves many hours of time from players that would otherwise be wasted on defending from nothing, or even if being attacked, the 1st hour doesnt matter anyways. (A lot of people dont have 1hr to waste on weekends)

So it benefits everyone, it's not just a selfish one-sided suggestion as you seem to think it is.

And yes it does benefit attackers, as Aaranock said and I have experienced a lot of players show up the first hour, get bored, and leave. While a lot of players show up the second hour. As attackers or defenders this is a bad thing. This shows people are getting bored to death in WoE.

Perhaps it's differing point of views, but I seriously don't think WoE should be a place that tests the "endurance" of people against boredom. Getting pwned by boredom is not WoE. Getting pwned by LoA/DD, Behe/Apoc, Revenga, NE, etc. is WoE.

[Ardney Wolf]

Proxyt Wrote:Making WoE 1 hr long is not selfish as we have said before has benefits to all sides.

I play the game for WoE and as it stands, I only get 3 hours of it a week. Cutting it down to 2 hours a week does not benefit me. Let's not try to put this in any light other than what it is. What we have here is 2 selfish requests (change or keep) and we'll need the GMs to arbitrate.

Proxyt Wrote:Perhaps it's differing point of views, but I seriously don't think WoE should be a place that tests the "endurance"...

And I do. If all it takes for me to break your defense is to wait 30-40 minutes for your defenders to get "bored" and leave and then walk over your reduced numbers with my team, then that's something you need to address internally within your guild, not externally through a change in the game mechanics. WoE is a structured contest and the side that has better preparation, better participation, and better discipline will win out in the end.

If WoE is boring to any of you then that is something you need to change for yourself. Nothing happening? Go out and make something happen. "But Ardney, that would leave us exposed to counter-attack!" Tough. You knew what you were signing up for when you took the castle. If you just want combat in WoE, then feel free to attack at will, without any semblance of planning or discipline and you can have battles to your heart's content. Just be prepared for the consequences of that course of action. If you want to get and keep castles you need to be prepared to do whatever it takes and sometimes that includes sentry duty.

I personally enjoy every minute of Sunday WoE and am rarely without something to do whether on offense or defense. If you're bored during WoE, then you're doing it wrong. Simple as. Leave the times as they are.

[Nidsrule]

Proxyt Wrote:I wasn't on the server when LW had to defend for 2 hours of empty castles, but they should've asked for a time change then.
If you're going to argue a point use better ones.

Thing is, it wasn't an issue at the time and I still stick by the opinion that it still isn't an issue. We had a scout at the front of the castle, a small precast and the rest of the guild messing around in the other castles. When there was any threat of people attacking, we recalled. The attacking/defending teams were rotated so nearly everyone got a shot at some action. Hell, if your main focus is looking for action, forget raising econ entirely and just go around breaking forts. The fact is there is plenty of ways to maintain an enjoyable WoE but these options may not always coincide with your guilds overall goal in WoE.

Proxyt Wrote:Unlike certain concepts in RO... WoE is one server-customizable event that entices or pushes away players. When I search for a server, if I find one that has little to no WoE, I don't even bother with it. WoE to myself and a lot of people is the end game. And I've played a lot of MMORPG's in my life. If the end game is not fun, then the game is not fun, and it's time to move on. Some people find alternatives like socializing or MvP'ing, but I'm sure there is a large population of serious WoE players here.

What exactly gives you that impression? heRO may have a lot of people who are enthusiastic about WoE, but for the most part I wouldn't describe the majority of heRO's WoEing population as being "serious".

I'm still not seeing how reducing Sunday WoE down to 1 hour is going to make things any more exciting. Guilds aren't suddenly going to become more motivated just because it's one hour. I don't remember ever treating a Wednesday WoE any differently to Sunday just because it's shorter. If you claim attackers are only WoEing for the last hour, it's still going to result in the same outcome for them.

The issues you are talking about with heRO's current WoE situation all come down to there being no guild who is making a legitimate effort to hold a castle. If you had a guild sitting on a nice chunk of econ and reaping the rewards from the new castle drops, you'd have every guild on the server at their doorstep until the castle falls. If everyone is sitting on rubbish amounts of econ, what's the motivation for attacking guilds to attack for the full duration of WoE outside of the fact that they might enjoy WoE for the PvP action (once again we come back to the "serious WoEr" issue)?

With the way heRO's guilds are structured currently, there will never be consistent action at both castles at all times. Maybe if NE and Revenga were both at a similiar level to DD/LoA and Behe/Apoc we'd see some more fierce battles but the fact remains, DD/LoA and Behe/Apoc are generally the ones that end up with castles (assuming it's not a last minute rush) because the power gap between guilds/alliances is just that big.

Once again, I still think having only one open castle would lead to the most interesting, consistent and exciting WoEs possible. Fates made the point earlier about this being detrimental to smaller guilds. How is it any different to what we are seeing now? Maybe if NE and Revenga were at least coming out of WoE with a castle half the time this would be true but it is still the 2 biggest alliances that hold the monopoly on the two trans castles. With only one open castle however, you'd end up with a similar result, with a lot more ferocity. That's not to say it'd be any easier on a small guild but don't try to make the claim that the current WoE situation on heRO benefits smaller guilds in any way.

Once again, Ardney makes a good point. You talk about serious WoEr's and yet in my opinion, Ardney is an example of the serious WoEr; they don't want to see what little time WoE consumes during the week reduced just because people are unable/unwilling to change the way they approach it to make it fun.

[Arkanis]

Thx to all people who talked about us. Makes us happy xD. Cause as Street said we are working hard for what we've done. We are going to get even better results in a not so far away future.

1 hour would be, IMO, bad... It been more then 6 years I'm playing RO now, I've seen at lots of different WoE settings, some being better then others. I can tell you that 2 hours makes perfect. Lots of ppl saying " boohoo there is no attack until 5 min end mark". I'm sorry for you guys but you're playing in the wrong castles then...

My guild must be connected 15-30 min before WoE for preparation.(the problem of ppl coming and leaving as they please are eliminated just by doing this) We do this just to be sure that we are full fledged for the 2 hours going. We are making serious attack on every hit we make, from 5 min start mark to 5 min end mark. If your guild are not making the same, its just because your peeps are lazy and discouraged.

There is only boredom if you don't act and say yourself "im not going until the 30 last min" Then if you start thinking like that, you can be sure you're a part of the incoming boredom. Less ppl thinking that they won't changes boredom = more action and more fun.

In 1 hour you don't even have time to make surgical/dismembering hit effective on the defenders.

If you guys want more action, break all your alliances THEN more competition will be up No one needs alliance... we don't have an alliance and we are making better and better with each WoE. More ennemies guilds = more action o.o
Unless you think you won't be able to challenge others guild alones... DD/LoA, behe/Apoc are higher lvl then us because of theyre alliances too. Cause we are almost at the same lvl as every woeing guild (except we don't have GR, devi, gtb, etc)

And in the last 2 weeks, ReVeNgA had half castles Sorry nidsrule...

[Aaronock]

*Points at Arkania's last comment...lols*
I enjoy WoE weekly, I simply ask for consistent amount of WoE time, make both woe's two hours or each one as that makes the most sense to me anyway.

It is about work and what not, if you are working hard with your team at some point the fruit of your labors show off, even if it is not in WoE, but in other aspects of RO. Even social guilds could agree by working with their teams they can conquer mighty mvp's or challenging maps.

I also am happy to see NE is getting more mention these days.
I enjoy fighting the guilds weekly even if my team has not gotten a castle yet, I do expect though for my team to pick themselves up and get stronger each week to finally beat that guy that kept killing them at the previous woe's.

Reve does prove a point though that alliances aren't needed to make it through WoE, its good teamwork and hardwork and pushing the team to come to fight weekly that does it. They did manage to hold us off pretty well Weds last week. Of course gears matter but if I really believed new guilds couldn't pop up into the WoE scene I wouldn't have made my guild...

Anyway that's all to me for the moment.

[Kulluminatii]

So...much...text...

I just say go with the middle ground and have 1 hr 30 min WoEs .