Should guild tax cap be changed?

[Lefire]

I'd find it amusing to set the cap high enough that you can have crazy 2x/70 characters :D

Might be kind of useful to be able to tax jEXP too, but that would take mucking around in the eAthena source code, so it's probably not worth the trouble even assuming anyone wants it.

[Kulluminatii]

Adrillf Wrote:Negatives- while random little guilds just starting out would get good exp older long term guilds would get exp. Why is this a negative? Small random little guilds tend to come and go, so it's really pointless to try to help them out.

True, most of the guilds created may not even make it. But if even a few were able to, its an improvement over what we have currently in WoE.

Adrillf Wrote:Even new guilds that everyone backs and there's a big group of followers fall away. Coffee Break- not here any more, Starburst- gone, fruit poring guild- long gone. There have been quite a bit of guilds come and gone, so while it would help these people that would hardly touch the history lesson of heRO, it would strongly benifit the larger more stable guilds that are on heRO. Behe would make it as much as we could about it and try to level as fast as humanly possible to get those extra guild levels.

You'd be able to make your guild fast, but we'd be able to get the rest of our skills too, expecially with an easier tax system.

A valid point, but if one was able to level a guild twice as fast(i.e. 100% tax) they would be able to catch up somewhat. Most would be content with lvl 30-40. I guess you could say it is a negative that already established guilds would be able to max their guild if they so wanted, but a maxed guild won't give them a major advantage over newer guilds.

Adrillf Wrote:I'm not sure of the exact list, we'd have to possibly ask GM's for an offical count, but I'm sure that there's well over 300 different guilds on heRO. So with all of these guilds why make it easy for a few more to join the spam of guilds that come and go in a blink of an eye?

If it's a guild that won't just disapear, you'll get your levels and there won't be a problem.

If it's going to be a flash in the barell guild- the 100% tax won't help at all in trying to get your guild WoE ready.

The other note to this is- just because there's more guilds doesnt impply that it's more WoE guilds.

Thats the thing, its not guaranteed that these guilds will come and go just like that. For all we know, every single one created might stay...or on the flipside...they might disband.

And your also right that not all guilds created would be WoE guilds, but I would bet that a large number of them will be. Also, if I remember correctly, Saii was thinking about making a separate woe-guild for those in Nya that wanted to WoE. So that is another possibility, that social guilds either decide to make WoE-counterpart guilds, or get the essential levels needed and become a social/WoE hybrid guild.

Whatever the result is, Im glad that many of you guys devoted the time to make well thought out responses

[Earl]

Yep, it should be changed to 100% :D

[Kulluminatii]

Care to give a reason why?

Would appreciate if the people who voted no as well as the people who voted yes provided their input.

[Snowhawk]

I honestly don't see how this would increase the want to WoE. I can't even see this increasing the want to make guilds. I am not a PvP or competitive player. I do try my hardest when Behemoth asks me to do something...most of the time spamming the Guild Chat with me whining while doing it >.>;;

I didn't really join Behe for WoE, I wanted to join for coordinated MvP hunts and possible Guild events + help with my characters when I make them. I always found that Guilds were faster ways of gaining info.

How I see it the issue with WoE isn't the lack of guilds that do it, its the lack of players that want to do it. If they really want to then they'd make a Guild, fully tax all the players they could and then train like there was no tomorrow. It isn't lack of guilds, its lack of player participation. I mean you had three moderately large guild disbanded. One became smaller guild, and the other two did a merger than eventually flopped. But this wasn't the guild's fault it was the player's increasing lack of interest in WoE or in overall play.

There are also some people that don't try their hardest and only stay in guilds so long as they are large and winning. If more Guilds WoE'd but had members that didn't have any interests in it how would that be better than the slump everyone says we are in now?

[Aaronock]

Adrillf I am hurt CB does exist, its just not as active as it once was :<

[Kulluminatii]

Sorry for the late response, was getting my backside handed to me in Madden .

Snowhawk Wrote:I honestly don't see how this would increase the want to WoE.??I can't even see this increasing the want to make guilds.??I am not a PvP or competitive player.

Well for those who are competitive, I would believe a higher tax cap would be very tempting.

Snowhawk Wrote:How I see it the issue with WoE isn't the lack of guilds that do it, its the lack of players that want to do it.??If they really want to then they'd make a Guild, fully tax all the players they could and then train like there was no tomorrow.??It isn't lack of guilds, its lack of player participation. I mean you had three moderately large guild disbanded.??One became smaller guild, and the other two did a merger than eventually flopped.??But this wasn't the guild's fault it was the player's increasing lack of interest in WoE or in overall play.

If people were able to set up a WoE-ready guild quicker, I would assume that would be one of the deciding factors in whether or not they make one. And there probably are some that really want to make a guild, but believe the time it may take to not be worth the effort.

In the case of STD, they left due to lack of competition. It is true that not many people want to WoE on heRO...but hopefully this may change things.

Snowhawk Wrote:If more Guilds WoE'd but had members that didn't have any interests in it how would that be better than the slump everyone says we are in now?

Well if the members had no interest in WoE...I don't know why they would join a WoE guild in the first place .
I am not guaranteeing this change will revitalize heRO's WoE by itself, but I believe it is well worth the shot. Honestly, what have we got to lose?

[Snowhawk]

Kulluminatii Wrote:

Snowhawk Wrote:If more Guilds WoE'd but had members that didn't have any interests in it how would that be better than the slump everyone says we are in now?

Well if the members had no interest in WoE...I don't know why they would join a WoE guild in the first place .
I am not guaranteeing this change will revitalize heRO's WoE by itself, but I believe it is well worth the shot. Honestly, what have we got to lose?

Social Guilds don't WoE or they don't actively take part in them like a WoE guild does. There are more Social guilds than WoE guilds due to lack of interest in WoE by Members.

If there are WoE interested members in Social guilds they either party with a WoE Guild, Make an Alt to become a member of the WoE guild, or quit the social guild to join the WoE guild.

I also listed why I joined Behemoth and it wasn't to WoE. I also stated that I only WoE when I can because its required of Behe Members to attend a certain amount. I certainly have no interest in WoE other than supporting my guild to the best of my abilities and if I were to make my own guild (no likely unless I can convince more of my friends to join) it would turn into another small social guild. If my members wanted to WoE I'd have them go with Behe.

[Kulluminatii]

Snowhawk Wrote:Social Guilds don't WoE or they don't actively take part in them like a WoE guild does.??There are more Social guilds than WoE guilds due to lack of interest in WoE by Members.

If there are WoE interested members in Social guilds they either party with a WoE Guild, Make an Alt to become a member of the WoE guild, or quit the social guild to join the WoE guild.

I also listed why I joined Behemoth and it wasn't to WoE.??I also stated that I only WoE when I can because its required of Behe Members to attend a certain amount.??I certainly have no interest in WoE other than supporting my guild to the best of my abilities and if I were to make my own guild (no likely unless I can convince more of my friends to join) it would turn into another small social guild.??If my members wanted to WoE I'd have them go with Behe.

Well we aren't focusing on shifting social guilds to WoE guilds here, but hoping that new guilds are created due to this. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if some social guilds created alt WoE guilds for members that did want to WoE.

In reference to the bolded part, thats one of the "problems" we have right now. Most people tend to just join already established guilds simply because they have the levels and the history of stability. I can't blame them for that, its tempting to go ahead and just join a guild such as Behe, NE, or Rev that are already "there" and well-established. If this change could help form even one guild, it would have been worth it.

The idea of increasing guild tax is the least-drastic method of improving WoE that I could think of. We could also remove one castle, but I believe 2 castles should be a minimum...plus a lot of people would be pretty PO'ed .

[Herman]

Kulluminatii Wrote:Care to give a reason why?

Would appreciate if the people who voted no as well as the people who voted yes provided their input.

I voted earlier, so here's my input.

I was a part of what is now understood as "Behemoth" when it first started.. I'm talking like.. weeks into Amara having leadership.??We were a relatively new guild, and not long after Amara had leadership we were recruiting mostly new players into the guild and starting the stepping stones to be a competitive guild.??FAST FORWARD 2 years...

We're one of the most competitive and strongest guilds on the server.??There were many factors to this; dedicated and loyal players/investment to the guild via tax, donations of zeny and coming to woe consistantly, even when we sucked fighting in alde, lol.

Let me repeat.. 2 YEARS...??

other guilds and players have been here longer, and are in different guilds that are considered just as competitive as we are.??The point i'm making here is that guild tax is probably the LEAST likely factor to change the current WoE climate.??

What do I think WILL make a difference???Honestly, more guilds like Revenga...??

Revenga is a newer guild filled with newer players compared to old break offs of DD/LW, Behe and whatnot, but they still find a way to be competitive.??How???They work together as a team, they are loyal, and they work HARD.??I remember laughing when they would run into our castle as a new guild when they had just joined the server, we'd wipe them pretty quick.??Guess what, we don't laugh anymore.??(well, at least not as much, )??They have the members, the motivation and the hardwork to make it in this atmosphere.??Lets face it, the big guilds here are big, and have been here a while with the gear/classes needed to be good in WoE... will guild tax increase change it for anyone? No.??Will a hardworking group of people invested in working together and getting better over TIME (not overnight)? yes.

and thats why I voted no.