Why..

[Général_Argos]

Your logic of what you detailed here is flawed ayu.

Quote:// 0x010(UF_PATHCHECK) Only cells with a shootable path will be placed

Sharing that flag means nothing about stackbility.

Sharing tat flag means nothing about the behavior of the two spells beside what is described about pathcheck.

[GM-Ayu]

GM-Ayu Wrote://??????0x002(UF_NOREITERRATION) Spell cannot be stacked
//??????0x008(UF_NOOVERLAP) Spell effects do not overlap

How is my post irrelevant...? All possible and related flags are included...

[sira]

GM-Ayu Wrote:Yay for pointless shouting matches both of them saying "but I saw this and it's totally true!" "You know nothing and this is kindergarten and oh heRO is so backward on the metagame and I know so much better, lulz." Honestly, can everyone just shut up and why haven't anyone dig into the mechanics of the game, instead of yelling?


Source code to solve the stackability argument:


// ID,unit ID,unit ID 2,layout,range,interval,target,flag
// flag 0x001(UF_DEFNOTENEMY) If 'defunit_not_enemy' is set, the target is changed to 'friend'
//??????0x002(UF_NOREITERRATION) Spell cannot be stacked
//??????0x004(UF_NOFOOTSET) Spell cannot be cast near/on targets
//??????0x008(UF_NOOVERLAP) Spell effects do not overlap
//??????0x010(UF_PATHCHECK) Only cells with a shootable path will be placed
//??????0x020(UF_NOPC) Spell cannot affect players.
//??????0x040(UF_NOMOB) Spell cannot affect mobs.
//??????0x080(UF_SKILL) Spell CAN affect skills.
//??????0x100(UF_DANCE) Dance skill
//??????0x200(UF_ENSEMBLE) Ensemble skill
//??????0x400(UF_SONG) Song skill
//??????0x800(UF_DUALMODE) Spell has effects both at an interval and when you step in/out
// Example: 0x006 = 0x002+0x004 -> Cannot be stacked nor cast near targets


83,0x86,????,??0, 3,1000,enemy, 0x010 //WZ_METEOR
85,0x86,????,??0, 6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:6:8,1250,enemy,0x018 //WZ_VERMILION
87,0x8d,????, -1, 0,??-1,all,?? 0x010 //WZ_ICEWALL
89,0x86,????,??0, 5, 450,enemy, 0x018 //WZ_STORMGUST
91,0x86,????,??0, 2,1000,enemy, 0x010 //WZ_HEAVENDRIVE


If you insist on personal experiment, Heaven's Drive and MS share identical flag. Whatever is true for HD's damage, is true for how MS calculates its damage *per* meteor's hit (another file control how many meteors).??

After you work out the "real" stackability argument, then it's a lot easier. If MS stacks infinitely, then MS will *eventually* overcome SG as long as you got enough wizards. If you want to go math crazy, you can probably even calculate how many MS will "tie" a SG, so anything above means MS is stronger, and anything below means SG remains powerful.

If MS doesn't "truly stack" (as in, meteors can all appear together, but only 1 meteor's damage can register at the same time for some form of delay), then the winner is obvious.

Again, since MS and HD shares the same flag, test with HD as it's a lot easier to control.

i like you, somewhat. i hinted at mechanics when i spoke of sala's dmg boost. HD isn't stackable much like MS, multiple MS helps to cover more cells at once and that's it. the original use for MS was to use it as a better flinching tool. but since MS used to be rarely used kro added salamander card to give more diversity to precasts. also you would find more info from src rather than the skill_db.txt imo. 1 MS per cell at any given time.

[Général_Argos]

@ayu:
Read me well.??I did not said irrelevant.??I said that the logic you exposed is flawed.??Nothing more, nothing less.??

I am currently digging for usefull infos in skill.c

brb soon

[GM-Ayu]

Tried search of "meteor" in src and only returned mostly irrelevant result in battle.c, skill.c, skill.h, status.c. Half of them are sadly meteor assaults. I'm pretty sure searching for "meteor" shouldn't miss anything since the spell technically should be addressed as wz_meteor at all times, unless some file dictates it by its ID of 83 instead (then almost all files will show something "relevant" x_x). I had to broaden my search and skill_unit_db (not skill_db) turns out most relevant results.

@Krim:

If the flag is 0x010, then it must only share UF_PATHCHECK and not UF_NOREITERRATION with UF_NOOVERLAP (8+2). We know that MS, SG, LoV can definitely all overlap in cast and not result in "skill failed" like trying to cast talkie box (flag of just 0x002) on each other. So, MS doesn't have 2 in it, so it can't be the 8+2 sum even if you try to argue the flag as such.

Since MS doesn't have "Spell cannot be stacked" and "Spell effects do not overlap", then reverse is true: MS can be stacked, and spell effects overlap.


However this isn't a definite answer that MS must be "indefinitely stackable" because I can't find in any file, what does UF_NOREITERRATION and UF_NOOVERLAP actually entitle as a property (or the lack of them.)

We know they definitely overlap, and definitely stack. Now we need to define, what is overlap and what is stack in the eyes of eAthena (not iRO.)

Once again, it's much easier to control heaven's drive than meteor storm, so test heaven's drive if you insist on empirical evidence.

[Général_Argos]

Wow what are you saying again? I never said it shared flag x002 and 0x008, read my post correctly I talked about 0x010 patcheck flag only...

And I said that your logic was flawed about your

"lol lets test HD and assume that Meteor will behave the same way because they have a flag in common lolIownz"??

Sharing a parameter in common doesn't mean that they behave the same way.??

But you accused me of telling that what you brung us was irrelevent.??I did not accused you of that, but now I will so that you can be right on that:

Here we go --> We don't care about how the spell meteor storm behave, what we care about is how the small little rocks, the meteors themself behave, and you won't find that in flags about the spell meteor storm.??

Stop missreading me plz nao ?_?

[sira]

what MS and HD share is that they are both burst damage spells, where as SG is a DOT spell. and while MS is a multiple burst spell you are confused about what it means to stack one. you can have one MS hit right after another and give the appearance of stacking because you see the numbers blend together while its one burst right after another.

simple example is firebolt and then fire bolt with double cast. both fire bolts dont hit at the exact same time but it gives an overlaid appearance because the nature of the spell. and that being the way it is autocasters would make a mistake of trying to max out their aspd at 190 or 195 (i dont know what your's is) because granite you can attack faster with 5 hits a second but you cannot have 5 firebolts in 1 second.


i brought up firebolt since it mirrors MS burst dmg and shows that you cannot have the same hit more than 1-2 times a second (i believe it's 1 spell of the same type per .33seconds). so dont confuse the way SG works and is made unstackable and how MS works.

[GM-Ayu]

Also, found this but this is beyond my shallow understanding of source code (much better at just db lol).


So, you're off to your own to read this one, heRO:



case WZ_METEOR:
if( skl->type >= 0 )
{
int x = skl->type>>16, y = skl->type&0xFFFF;
if( path_search_long(NULL, src->m, src->x, src->y, x, y, CELL_CHKWALL) )
skill_unitsetting(src,skl->skill_id,skl->skill_lv,x,y,skl->flag);
if( path_search_long(NULL, src->m, src->x, src->y, skl->x, skl->y, CELL_CHKWALL) )
clif_skill_poseffect(src,skl->skill_id,skl->skill_lv,skl->x,skl->y,tick);
}
else if( path_search_long(NULL, src->m, src->x, src->y, skl->x, skl->y, CELL_CHKWALL) )
skill_unitsetting(src,skl->skill_id,skl->skill_lv,skl->x,skl->y,skl->flag);
break;



(it's in skill.c... copy/paste didn't copy the indents)

[Général_Argos]

I know I told you I was already in skill.c
But what you copy/pasted here is useless without the function's code that are called here

And you were reading the db wrong, adding 0x002 and 0x008 doesn't equal 0x010.??The 0x means that it is an hexadecimal number, not a decimal number.??And 0x002 + 0x008 = 0x00A in Hex.??It doesn't equal 0x010 like you tought.??You should be carefull ;F

[azurerogue]

Actually, if you can cast overlapping HDs on either side of the target and he takes damage from both that would imitate two meteors hitting.

And, 7seven7, about your point about my hypothetical situation being uncommon it very much is not. MS is a 7x7 area skill that can drop meteors centered on any area in that 7x7 area. Each meteor hurts things within a 7x7 area of where it falls (giving the spell a potential coverage of 13x13). Thus, if you're in the middle of the spell's AoE you will receive damage from most of the meteors since even the corners should be hitting you when they are hit by a meteor. So no, it doesn't take an insane amount of Wizards to stack up massive damage.

Finally, I don't believe that the final post is necessary Ayu. That's just the game checking for a valid path from target point to target. If you'll notice, when you cast in oddly shaped areas you seem to get less meteors (if you cast around a corner, for example). Only the meteors which would have line of sight (I believe to the casting point, but possibly to the caster) will actually fall. Therefore, if you cast MS around a corner, only meteors which fall in a way that they could target the cast point with a skill (as if they were players) will actually be created. The fact that it does not posses the no iteration flag should mean they will stack with other occurrences.