Is WoE on heRO accessible?

[mahawirasd]

imho it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive...

but yeah i guess it really means having to wait long periods of time to wait for competitive people who aren't jerks or immature pricks (if any even exist)...

i'm a casual player myself so yah imho HeRO's fine the way it is.

If you feel like you want more pvp and woe action, then you should probably invite more people in with your own gimmick and explain how HeRO and its custom still allows for an interesting/challenging pvp/woe scene...

but to give them a fast fix of RO is what HRs are for, not LRs...
hell for those with medium attention spans there are Mid Rates... teens to 50 rates are MRs imho...

so again, if it's really the rates that are the problem then i say it's a good thing those who want to grow their e-peens or RO teabaggers don't even look at LRs such as hero...


-w-

[Matrim Cauthon Jr]

Snapplewee Wrote:For quite some time now, WoE on heRO has been, as far as I have heard, quite stale.


I've been thinking in some of my free time about this issue. Bear with this post, I have spent time on it.


heRO WoE has no doubt been dominated by a few guilds over the last few years. Well, let's stop there and analyze that:

1.) This is not an easy feat. In a server this size, for power to be between a few guilds is generally difficult. These guilds have deserved what they have because of hard work.

2.) I do so however how this is frustrating. Outside guilds looking for a new server could be daunted by the task of "holy crap, they have 6 or so Ghostring's in that guild, and another 5 in this guild!"


With point 1 you find my sympathy for the guilds in command. I was in LW when it was peaking. I left right before they began to hold Prontera Castle for as long as they did at 100 eco. The work is insane. You'd think once you get the good gears that you'd be set. That's not really the case. There is so much upkeep. Zeny, healing items, new gears/chars (a lot of serious RO players will gladly switch classes to help the guild). It is a lot to demand from players.

With point 2, you find my concerns for server growth. I am "part" of a guild that has server hopped. One day we were talking about heRO and I flat out said "They have a ton of Ghostrings in the main guilds, via a feature that has recently been nerfed (good thing), but making it very difficult for new guilds to get up to speed with the existing guilds". I have since quit "playing" RO because I am quite bored with normal game play. Server hopping is draining. My guild put heRO to a vote (for which I voted Yes before you think I was talking down about heRO. I only spoke ill of the WoE.) and heRO was voted "No".

The fact is that in the current format WoE is in, it is a damn near impossible task for a new guild to get up to speed.

This is where it gets messy folks. I'll try to organize the flow of my thoughts.



A.) Guilds have established themselves via hard work. They have higher tier MvP's camped and great gear due to time spent on heRO.
B.) Guilds should not be punished because of that. Hard work should be rewarded, and they certainly are being rewarded.
C.) The problem is that because of this, it will, and does, deter outside guilds from joining heRO.


This leaves very few options for improving conditions.

So what are we left with? I am absolutely against punishing the established guilds for their success. That is simply out of the question.

Opening up more castles wouldn't do much as well. It would leave the same "We'll hold Pront with a small precast, send out most of our guys to take Castle-A and if Pront is in trouble we recall" mentality that has existed.

A sensible option I have seen proposed is open up more castles, but have them open on different days. Such as:

Pront on Sunday
Payon on Wednesday

But I am against this undeveloped idea because it does in fact punish the successful guilds by throwing off the "balance" of WoE as is.


I don't have all the answers to this, I wish I did.


So, I have to ask you all a question, do you think heRO WoE is accessible? If yes, why? If not, why?

I am going to have to vote No, based on the arguments above.


If we want heRO to be accessible, how would we do it?


Alas, that is what I am proposing. It has to be done player side. The GM's really shouldn't intervene, because they really have a good system in place for WoE layout.

What do I mean by player-side?

It is up to these smaller WoE guilds to start banding together, working together and emulating the larger guilds, together. Ally with a larger guild for WoE experience. Get in on the front lines and see what works. Start doing research on how to kill MvPs. Figure out what MvP's have the drops you want. Clock the MvPs.

The problem can only be solved player side, not server side.

I think Hero is doing fine and I see no problems with the current state of affairs.

[Mort]

GM-Circe Wrote:*insert join Test and Dev team plug here*

What are the requirements?

[Matrim Cauthon Jr]

Gojira Wrote:It's accessible but the ghostrings are an issue. A lot of ''damage'' classes used in common woes are nerfed here vs old guilds due to the amount of ghostrings held by the members of the said guilds. The ghostrings wouldn't be an issue if new members could obtain them the same way old members did but that is not the case.

Another aspect is the fact there's more ''social'' players here then people interested in woe. It's hard to raise a competitive woe guild when you can't get players who are willing to invest all the farming required for woe material (cwhites, blue pots, etc....)

I'm social and I'll sell or give those materials away. Just look me up in-game.

[Matrim Cauthon Jr]

G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:

n3xus Wrote:the number of social guilds severely outnumber the number of woe guilds.??same goes for players' main chars.??before, the main char was in the woe guild.??nowadays, some people make a char for woe purposes (which is not their main) only.

...Because the server advertise too many "custom hats" and not enough "custum pvp content" on banners imo :x

---> Competitive people are not the target audience for this server and that is basicly the root of the problem

Competitive people don't wan't to join a server "to become a hero" and do questing, they join a server to pwn t3h nubs and get fast action and they are not getting that here

Solution:

1) R...
2) Rates to 15/15/15/3 (last number for mvp cards)
3)
A) More gms motivated to create content about pvp, like new pvp maps, pvp battleground and stuff instead of X number of new custum quests each month
B) More rewards for pvp content
4) Change the banners to advertise the server as a competitive server and not as a "lol-online-chat-room-with-wingsNhats"
5) Balance the custom items (wings!)

Also, we need more t-baging and less "lets play nice" on forum, or at least have a section for that.??People should be proud of what they accomplish in pvp/woe and definitly brag about it.??Remember, this is a game.??We don't play games to act like we would irl.??We play games to grow our e-peen! ?_?

I play games to enjoy myself and collect stuff.

[Former-GM-Circe]

Mort Wrote:

GM-Circe Wrote:*insert join Test and Dev team plug here*

What are the requirements???

To PM Aki asking to, really.

Testing things on the test server, and possibly helping with scripting/images is also an upside.

[Général_Argos]

Woaw cauthon jr, 3 posts of 1 line each, and each one of your post quoting a wall of text.

Your posts:
1) "i see no problem"
2) "im social and i toss away grs or stuff like that"
3) "i play games to collect stuff"

Clearly, your not the woe-type and are not concerned by this problem.??
We got that.??
Thank you for your input and please stop quoting people.??
You could have made a 3-line post instead of [30+lines of quoting for 1-line posts] X 3.??

[Snapplewee]

Matrim Cauthon Jr Wrote:

Snapplewee Wrote:For quite some time now, WoE on heRO has been, as far as I have heard, quite stale.


I've been thinking in some of my free time about this issue. Bear with this post, I have spent time on it.


heRO WoE has no doubt been dominated by a few guilds over the last few years. Well, let's stop there and analyze that:

1.) This is not an easy feat. In a server this size, for power to be between a few guilds is generally difficult. These guilds have deserved what they have because of hard work.

2.) I do so however how this is frustrating. Outside guilds looking for a new server could be daunted by the task of "holy crap, they have 6 or so Ghostring's in that guild, and another 5 in this guild!"


With point 1 you find my sympathy for the guilds in command. I was in LW when it was peaking. I left right before they began to hold Prontera Castle for as long as they did at 100 eco. The work is insane. You'd think once you get the good gears that you'd be set. That's not really the case. There is so much upkeep. Zeny, healing items, new gears/chars (a lot of serious RO players will gladly switch classes to help the guild). It is a lot to demand from players.

With point 2, you find my concerns for server growth. I am "part" of a guild that has server hopped. One day we were talking about heRO and I flat out said "They have a ton of Ghostrings in the main guilds, via a feature that has recently been nerfed (good thing), but making it very difficult for new guilds to get up to speed with the existing guilds". I have since quit "playing" RO because I am quite bored with normal game play. Server hopping is draining. My guild put heRO to a vote (for which I voted Yes before you think I was talking down about heRO. I only spoke ill of the WoE.) and heRO was voted "No".

The fact is that in the current format WoE is in, it is a damn near impossible task for a new guild to get up to speed.

This is where it gets messy folks. I'll try to organize the flow of my thoughts.



A.) Guilds have established themselves via hard work. They have higher tier MvP's camped and great gear due to time spent on heRO.
B.) Guilds should not be punished because of that. Hard work should be rewarded, and they certainly are being rewarded.
C.) The problem is that because of this, it will, and does, deter outside guilds from joining heRO.


This leaves very few options for improving conditions.

So what are we left with? I am absolutely against punishing the established guilds for their success. That is simply out of the question.

Opening up more castles wouldn't do much as well. It would leave the same "We'll hold Pront with a small precast, send out most of our guys to take Castle-A and if Pront is in trouble we recall" mentality that has existed.

A sensible option I have seen proposed is open up more castles, but have them open on different days. Such as:

Pront on Sunday
Payon on Wednesday

But I am against this undeveloped idea because it does in fact punish the successful guilds by throwing off the "balance" of WoE as is.


I don't have all the answers to this, I wish I did.


So, I have to ask you all a question, do you think heRO WoE is accessible? If yes, why? If not, why?

I am going to have to vote No, based on the arguments above.


If we want heRO to be accessible, how would we do it?


Alas, that is what I am proposing. It has to be done player side. The GM's really shouldn't intervene, because they really have a good system in place for WoE layout.

What do I mean by player-side?

It is up to these smaller WoE guilds to start banding together, working together and emulating the larger guilds, together. Ally with a larger guild for WoE experience. Get in on the front lines and see what works. Start doing research on how to kill MvPs. Figure out what MvP's have the drops you want. Clock the MvPs.

The problem can only be solved player side, not server side.

I think Hero is doing fine and I see no problems with the current state of affairs.

Thats not what I was asking.

[Ultima_Pi]

G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:Solution:

1) R...
2) Rates to 15/15/15/3 (last number for mvp cards)
3)
A) More gms motivated to create content about pvp, like new pvp maps, pvp battleground and stuff instead of X number of new custum quests each month
B) More rewards for pvp content
4) Change the banners to advertise the server as a competitive server and not as a "lol-online-chat-room-with-wingsNhats"
5) Balance the custom items (wings!)

Also, we need more t-baging and less "lets play nice" on forum, or at least have a section for that.??People should be proud of what they accomplish in pvp/woe and definitly brag about it.??Remember, this is a game.??We don't play games to act like we would irl.??We play games to grow our e-peen! ?_?

1) Do you mean... W...?

2) Maybe 1 or 2x for all MVP drops, since that's what going to be happening at 15x normal crap.

3) Uh... well yeah. What Circe said.

4) That's up to Pandora. As heRO changes, if it ever does, then the banners will have to change to reflect that. Unfortunately, right now, we are a PvM pretty online chat room with Wings 'N Hats. We would actually need the PvP stuff (see above) to claim that we are in fact a competitive server.

5) Less Equip slots please.

The whole e-peen thing is what you see on main. This server is too full of nice people, not enough RAWRDIE people. It's all the (few) RAWRDIE people spewing the so-called "hate" on main. Since there's no viable outlet to let the steam out (lol what PvP?), main is where is gets dumped.


Also, less wall quoting please... Or at least post a wall of equal length.

[Adrillf]

The problem with WoE is, as stated before, people don't like it when people tell them to work. Recently there was a new member to Behemoth that just joined the server. He constantly complained that he wasn't at the level of other sinx's in guild seeing as he was only a 8x sin. He would complain that leveling wasn't fast enough, that gear wasn't dropping fast enough, that he didn't have the cards, or anything like that. We'd tell him to work, and he wouldn't do a single thing. Doing nothing but complaining happens far too often.

As for new members on the server that are WoE active. They understand what it takes to do things. They understand what it takes to be effective in WoE, and they realize that the easiest way to be effective and worth while in WoE is to join a WoE guild, which only increases the major guilds. Why would a new person to the server, who knows what they need to do, start a new guild and try to organize a new group, when they could just add their number into an organized guild with a leadership already in place? If I was to start heRO, why would I want to start a new guild to WoE with when I could just join in the ranks of Behe/Seraph and already be in the active scene with them?

Sure WoE is accessible for new players. They access it through the already made guilds, instead of trying to torture themselves into making a new guild, leveling up themselves and the guild, all while trying to organize people, get gears, and teach people what they need to do.

The one thing that I don't agree with is. . .

mahawirasd Wrote:so yeah, if you wanna WOE, why don't start with non-trans?

Non-trans doesn't mean that it's easier. If trans WoE is kicking your butt, non-trans won't be any easier. The meta game is a bit different, and the way you get slaughtered is in a different form, but non-trans WoE isn't easier than trans WoE, it's just a different form. If you don't have a thara frog shield and feather beret to reduce at least a bit in trans WoE, then you still don't have a thara frog shiled and feather beret to reduce anything in non-trans WoE. Non-trans doesn't mean easier, it just means different.