Changes to WoE

[Merellis]

With that idea, what would stop anyone from making a new character STRICTLY to get passed this, and the old guilds can also get attacked by a new guild but not attack back? How is that fair? And what would be the time for an OLD or NEW guild, a month, more?

Just so many ways this can be broken and abused. @_@ Opening more castles would at least get a new guild the option of trying to get a castle and at the very least let the guild practice both attacking and defending.

And yes, a strong leader with good officers would be able to get a guild to work hard on Gearing, Levelling, and Tactics, and MVPing. So if someone wants to make a WoE guild and make an impact, it is gonna take time, take hard work, and take a lot of team work.

So if you want to WoE, get to work. If you want to whine, well, there is a part of the forum for it.

[Matsu]

That won't work and is too much work...

If you open one castle there, there is exactly something to do.. since neither Behe or Seraph cares if they can get to 100 eco easily without having to do a shitnitz.. Just wait and drop... 2 castles 2 great guilds... what will happen when there is a third one open?

- New tactics
- More people to try to get a castle. ( cause sending out a team will suffer in their own defense. )
- Reve has a chance on doing something too..
- My guild will go there for sure. ( Even though we suck )
- So there will be like 3 castles total, even less than the max amount they set up.

IMO there can't be a better time to change it...

[exwing]

To Takhara: this thread is to give suggestions and improvements on how to make War better? an argument is something that brings points that either the person did not think of themselves or was over looked in building on an idea, and to have suggestions or to build an argument you need to have grounds on what you are saying to be either true or false, now i see you trying to pick a fight with me at each turn for giving me opinion on this thread that is to give suggestions or counter points from what I think from what I have SEEN and as a former guild leader.

I asked for the relevance of the chart, i have yet to get a reply, i posted about what you need to succeed as a whole guild, frankly i think I've stayed on topic while others such as yourself keep trying to break off into an attack.

Now back on topic, i agree with what Merellis has to say on this topic, mostly because he agreed with my points of having to work hard and dealing with the crap the server will throw your way, the system you think about will always have some sort of abuse if you keep placing limitations on it. and having to register for war each woe... well sorta takes an element of surprise out of the game. War is war, trying to constantly put limitations on it makes it a setup pvp tournament with kiddy gloves. there is still the factor of being fair to the older guilds who have put in their time and effort during these months or even years.

And just as Merellis said, there is a whine thread on forums just to cry!

Further more, i really couldn't care less what you or anyone else think of me if it's off topic. Stick to the points and you'll find an argument over anything, either for or against something. that's what makes a suggestion a suggestion.

[Session]

azurerogue Wrote:Takhara, please stop posting "^ this" at the same suggestion.??Especially when we are discussing that very subject right now.??Read Matrim, mine, and Ex's posts clearly and you'll see that your suggestion is exactly what we are discussing right now.??And, as I said in my post, that eliminates not only the motivation to compete for castles but also the possibility of competing for castles.??So no, imo, it's not a good idea.

I thought it would be obvious enough that I knew this. Yes, I can read. I saw that you are discussing this exact subject, but I noted this very early on in the discussion and thought I'd point out what I support, while people are actually talking about it.

Am I not allowed to do that then?

exwing Wrote:When in the hell did i say that social guilds where the problem? if you actually did read what I wrote, I said:

These people who go into war do NOT last long, they quit because they lose too many people or cannot give the guild the attention it needs, because of that, most people become "Social Plague's" that just sit around or join one of the already large forces that fight each other.

i didn't say they are the problem, i said that's what they become after. Think a bit before you reply wont you?

Between the above quote, and you being rude towards Namine, after he/she/it merely posted a chart (While it wasn't the most contributing thing ever, it was an attempt to do just that.), its clear that you are the one trying to pick a fight with others. So, why try and turn it around on someone telling to to give it a rest?

Don't bring me into it, I have just merely stated my thoughts like the rest of you.

Now, the next time you make your silly assumptions- at least do so without making it a huge run on sentence of redundant explanations.

Also, its pretty obvious you do care what others think about you, off topic or??not. You wouldn't have so easily assumed I was "Picking a fight" with you if you didn't.

[Aaronock]

Man you guys are turning this topic from pure win to quite sour very fast.
Stop with sarcasm, stop with attacks, everyone has their own views on what will create more competition and what will not.

Stop being fagbats mmmkay.

[thecursed]

azurerogue Wrote:GR doesn't end anything - it just makes Creators and Champs, the ones who like to think of WoE as a solo e-peen measuring stick, cry.??Good teamwork > GR.

Just thought i should mention even if its off topic that GR really isnt a threat to anyone unless the player using it knows the how to. Armor swapping, when to use it, when not to. Even then there are of course screw ups because anything can happen in WoE. GRs are more deadly on a player who can actually use their characters well...This is rare on heRO IMO, though most who can use their characters well dont even have a GR, and they still pwn.

[Nidsrule]

The thing that bugs me about opening more castles is that it is aimed almost entirely at improving the WoE scene for new guilds. What new guilds are you referring to? I can't remember the last time I saw a guild outside of the Behe alliance, Rev or Seraph in a WoE castle. You'd think if there were smaller guilds out there that had an interest in WoE that they would at least make an effort to have a look at some castles, even if it means a quick and meaningless death.

I haven't seen any posts in this thread from people who want to/are managing an upcoming WoE guild on heRO. So, if these guilds aren't even making an effort in game to see what heRO WoE is like or making an effort to voice their opinion here, I don't see there is any evidence of new guilds wanting to WoE on heRO.

My arguments for having only a single castle stem from wanting better competition between the guilds that are already active in WoE. Trying to change WoE to suit new guilds is an exercise in futility because heRO doesn't help new guilds in any way. Being a low rate it requires a lot of effort to get a guild up to a WoE ready standard.

RO is far too old of a game to expect people to put the effort in required to create and manage a WoE guild from scratch. Nothing short of changing heRO's rates to that of a midrate or merely handing out WoE orientated gears is going to attract the kind of players that make up functional WoE guilds. Why would people who are interested mainly in WoE (the kind of people heRO NEEDS to attract to make WoE more interesting) play on a low rate like heRO when they can get the same WoE experience on a server with much higher rates? There's nothing groundbreaking or unique about heRO's WoE system; certainly nothing to attract people from coming here over a mid or high rate server.

Since opening more castles by itself isn't going to attract more WoE orientated players to heRO I still think the focus should be on improving WoE for the existing guilds rather than opening more castles which would only further limit the chance of conflict between existing guilds.

tl;dr

There are apparently no new WoE guilds on heRO (but if there are and they are just lurking in the shadows, it'd be nice to see some input here and not just from people in long running WoE guilds). The mere act of opening more castles isn't going to attract more people to WoE on heRO; it would require either raising the rates substantially (so people don't have to spend months just to have a hope in competing ), handing out WoE based gears or implementing some form of custom WoE system that no other server has.

Matrim Cauthon Jr Wrote:Then how would you propose they ease into WoE?

There's no easing into WoE. If players wan't to ease into WoE they typically have to join up with an existing guild and learn the ropes. The only other way to "ease" into it is to accept you are going to get rolled, continue working towards better and better gears and treat ANY experience in WoE as beneficial. People aren't going to get any better in WoE if you make it easy for them. It certainly doesn't promote improvement; if anything it promotes laziness.

Either way, I take a very selfish approach to this subject. I'm not interested in "easing" new guilds into WoE. From what I understand, non-trans WoE was designed to ease people into it but just like trans WoE, it is dominated by older guilds. Being a low rate, the gap in gears is and always will be the bane of newer guilds. In terms of skill level, heRO's WoE scene is incredibly average. If there were new guilds out there containing experienced players, I'm pretty sure they would have at least voiced their opinion in this thread or made an effort to mess around in WoE but as it stands I haven't seen ANY evidence that such guilds exist on heRO.

Matsu Wrote:That won't work and is too much work...

If you open one castle there, there is exactly something to do.. since neither Behe or Seraph cares if they can get to 100 eco easily without having to do a shitnitz.. Just wait and drop... 2 castles 2 great guilds... what will happen when there is a third one open?

- New tactics
- More people to try to get a castle. ( cause sending out a team will suffer in their own defense. )
- Reve has a chance on doing something too..
- My guild will go there for sure. ( Even though we suck )
- So there will be like 3 castles total, even less than the max amount they set up.

IMO there can't be a better time to change it...

What new tactics are you refering to exactly? If a third castle is opened, it would only lead to Rev taking and holding it and the idea of competition goes out the door. As it stands, Rev is the only guild out there who makes a legitimate attempt at attacking either Behe or Seraph. Giving them a castle to sit on just as Behe and Seraph are doing won't lead to a more intersting WoE scene for heRO.

[Matsu]

Do you think Seraph and Behe don't want that castle.. They have enough people to send teams to get it.. so Im sure it will keep the competition up...
Atleast it's better than keeping it like this ''boring WoE's'' Even as a noob it's boring..

[Aaronock]

So we're down to the question of more castles or not more castles?
I guess I'll sit down and make a pros and cons list of both for later.

[Nidsrule]

You could say the same with WoE as it is though. Im sure Behe and Seraph would love to hold both castles but neither side has the players to both maintain a solid defense and a solid offensive team. You can look at it as being a stalemate which opening a new castle won't change.