Green Pots Allowed?

[_Wind_]

G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:I agree with u Balmumg.

TO WIND : Don't forget that the plant pots of ur alchimist and that the arrows and traps that ur sniper use are consumable items

Zalman Wrote:So now you've turned dueling into a matter of items instead of a matter of utilizing your character's skills to their fullest, which is the exact opposite of what you were attempting to do.

Bla bla bla character's skills...Do you want duels with no items, including NO WEAPONS????? Mages would pwned everyone with no items duels....

Your idea is flawed i use traps because its a hunter ' skill ' and it doesn't cure me in anyway - unlike pots - think before you post Argos

[Général_Argos]

_Wind_ Wrote:Your idea is flawed i use traps because its a hunter ' skill ' and it doesn't cure me in anyway - unlike pots - think before you post Argos

???????????? Eh! Increase hp recorvery is a skill too. If I go with ur own logic, I could use white pots because I have the increase hp recorvery skill

Zalman Wrote:You also missed the point entirely, good job. Allow me to rephrase. When I say items, I refer to consumable items, not "equipment". Two drastically different things.

???????????????????????

Hey, traps AREN'T EQUIPEMENT! Wake up dude

[_Wind_]

someone slap some sense into this guy

[Général_Argos]

_Wind_ Wrote:someone slap some sense into this guy

Yeah, u have no argument I see.

Be honest with urself.

U used skill points to use traps? I used skill points to increase effect of pots.
I don't claim that I would or encourage the use of healing pots in duels. I just claim that u have no argument. Why shouldn't I use green pots in duels?

Maybe u worked hard to make a bow that can silence people, but u know, some items in the games are bad or useless

Asking people to don't use green pots when u silence them is as cheap as cloaking in a corner of the map...

[Zalman]

G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:

_Wind_ Wrote:Your idea is flawed i use traps because its a hunter ' skill ' and it doesn't cure me in anyway - unlike pots - think before you post Argos

???????????? Eh! Increase hp recorvery is a skill too. If I go with ur own logic, I could use white pots because I have the increase hp recorvery skill

Zalman Wrote:You also missed the point entirely, good job. Allow me to rephrase. When I say items, I refer to consumable items, not "equipment". Two drastically different things.

???????????????????????

Hey, traps AREN'T EQUIPEMENT! Wake up dude

Can a mage use traps? No. Can a knight use traps? No. Why? Because they lack the skills available to utilize those abilities. Following that logic, mages and priests couldn't use any skill require gemstones because the skills require them to work.

You're trying to twist the point. When we say consumable items, we mean basic items that do not require skills at all to use. Traps are unusable without the class skills to use them. And before you try to twist around the point of arrows, they are restricted by being able to use the weapon needed to use them (Not so dissimilar to the need for an axe for a blacksmith to use adrenaline rush).


The point is that you're using outside means to heal yourself in a battle. Potions require no skills, no class restrictions (except perhaps in the case of awakening and berserk potions, but those are the exception to the rule)
Arrows cannot be used without the ability to use a bow, Gems cannot be used without the skills that need them, Traps cannot be used without skills that utilize them.

Potions, however, can be used regardless of anything. Increase HP recovery may boost them, but it is not required in any way to use these items.

[Général_Argos]

BTW, as a crus, I have the cure skill, but I cant use it on myself.

Zalman Wrote:Can a mage use traps? No. Can a knight use traps? No. Why? Because they lack the skills available to utilize those abilities. Following that logic, mages and priests couldn't use any skill require gemstones because the skills require them to work.

You're trying to twist the point. When we say consumable items, we mean basic items that do not require skills at all to use. Traps are unusable without the class skills to use them. And before you try to twist around the point of arrows, they are restricted by being able to use the weapon needed to use them (Not so dissimilar to the need for an axe for a blacksmith to use adrenaline rush).


The point is that you're using outside means to heal yourself in a battle. Potions require no skills, no class restrictions (except perhaps in the case of awakening and berserk potions, but those are the exception to the rule)
Arrows cannot be used without the ability to use a bow, Gems cannot be used without the skills that need them, Traps cannot be used without skills that utilize them.

Potions, however, can be used regardless of anything. Increase HP recovery may boost them, but it is not required in any way to use these items.

I never said to use healing pots during duels. I said that following Wind's logic, we could.

For the tournement:
Why do u think there is a restriction of 15 sec for cloaking????????
Why do u think alchimist could carry 100 pots on them?????????
Because exceptions exists. Green pots and silence are. Green pots should be allowed because the effect of silence is very long, instead of the effect of freezing/cursing that is stopped when triggered by the first hit.

[Zalman]

G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:BTW, as a crus, I have the cure skill, but I cant use it on myself.

Zalman Wrote:Can a mage use traps? No. Can a knight use traps? No. Why? Because they lack the skills available to utilize those abilities. Following that logic, mages and priests couldn't use any skill require gemstones because the skills require them to work.

You're trying to twist the point. When we say consumable items, we mean basic items that do not require skills at all to use. Traps are unusable without the class skills to use them. And before you try to twist around the point of arrows, they are restricted by being able to use the weapon needed to use them (Not so dissimilar to the need for an axe for a blacksmith to use adrenaline rush).


The point is that you're using outside means to heal yourself in a battle. Potions require no skills, no class restrictions (except perhaps in the case of awakening and berserk potions, but those are the exception to the rule)
Arrows cannot be used without the ability to use a bow, Gems cannot be used without the skills that need them, Traps cannot be used without skills that utilize them.

Potions, however, can be used regardless of anything. Increase HP recovery may boost them, but it is not required in any way to use these items.

I never said to use healing pots during duels. I said that following Wind's logic, we could.

For the tournement:
Why do u think there is a restriction of 15 sec for cloaking????????
Why do u think alchimist could carry 100 pots on them?????????
Because exceptions exists. Green pots and silence are. Green pots should be allowed because the effect of silence is very long, instead of the effect of freezing/cursing that is stopped when triggered by the first hit.

Get vit or get a marduk card. If you don't like silence, then you should prepare for it. Same with Freeze or any other ill status effects. That's why those cards/stat abilities exist.

Also, cursing isn't untriggered by being hit.

For note, the cloaking restriction is obvious, to keep match times low, as said, there's a 5 minute time limit, so a sin could get some cheap hits in then just hide for the remaining time. As for the alchemist carrying only 100 parts, again, time would play an issue. As he could just build a wall of spam and hide behind it the entire time, letting his enemy take dmg till time runs out.

[Général_Argos]

Zalman Wrote:Get vit or get a marduk card. If you don't like silence, then you should prepare for it. Same with Freeze or any other ill status effects. That's why those cards/stat abilities exist.

Also, cursing isn't untriggered by being hit.

For note, the cloaking restriction is obvious, to keep match times low, as said, there's a 5 minute time limit, so a sin could get some cheap hits in then just hide for the remaining time. As for the alchemist carrying only 100 parts, again, time would play an issue. As he could just build a wall of spam and hide behind it the entire time, letting his enemy take dmg till time runs out.

Spaming an army is a strategy as any others. Why not? What do u want alch to do? And spaming an army involve preparing lot of plant pots.

I meaned stone cursing also. When ur in the phase that u can't move.

Anyway, GMs will decide for the green pots/silence. The restriction of 15 sec for cloaking is a good thing btw and I think that a lot of people will agree with me on that.

[Zalman]

G?n?ral_Argos Wrote:

Zalman Wrote:Get vit or get a marduk card. If you don't like silence, then you should prepare for it. Same with Freeze or any other ill status effects. That's why those cards/stat abilities exist.

Also, cursing isn't untriggered by being hit.

For note, the cloaking restriction is obvious, to keep match times low, as said, there's a 5 minute time limit, so a sin could get some cheap hits in then just hide for the remaining time. As for the alchemist carrying only 100 parts, again, time would play an issue. As he could just build a wall of spam and hide behind it the entire time, letting his enemy take dmg till time runs out.

Spaming an army is a strategy as any others. Why not? What do u want alch to do? And spaming an army involve preparing lot of plant pots.

I meaned stone cursing also. When ur in the phase that u can't move.

Anyway, GMs will decide for the green pots/silence. The restriction of 15 sec for cloaking is a good thing btw and I think that a lot of people will agree with me on that.

100 pots are plenty to spam with, but they're limited enough so as to keep every single match from being a matter of the alchemist simply building a wall and hiding behind it till time runs out. The same idea applies to the hiding rule, which you yourself say is a good thing.

[Sir Aun]

Here are my two cents.

If someone doesn't want healing items to be used in a duel then just state that at the beginning of the duel. Don't complain because someone decided to use a green pot to remove silence, blind, etc just say it before the duel that you want a no potion duel. Also since you agree to a no potion duel specifie that the use of concentration,awakening, beserk pot is legal.

So I say go with this basic concept and no one should have the right to complain because you set the rules before the fight. Please don't go with the ''It makes sense that pots should not be used in PVP'' and not say that at the beginning of the duel. Because, as we all know, not everyone thinks alike.

These where my two cents and I would like to get them back eventually or I wont be able to eat tomorow.